Evidence of meeting #40 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Léa Clermont-Dion  Producer, Author and Political Scientist , As an Individual
Rob Koehler  Director General, Global Athlete
Kim Shore  Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Alexie Labelle
Amelia Cline  Lawyer and Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada
Shannon Moore  Assistant Professor, Faculty of Education, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Teresa Fowler  Assistant Professor, Concordia University of Edmonton, As an Individual
Allison Sandmeyer-Graves  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Women and Sport
Belle Bailey  Assistant, Sport Program Development, Indigenous Sport and Wellness Ontario
Christina Ruddy  Director and Coordinator, Government Relations, National Strategy , Indigenous Sport and Wellness Ontario

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

There were issues.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Kim, just keep on going. I have stopped the clock regardless. Keep on going. I'm sorry for interrupting, but we just want to make sure everybody can hear.

11:30 a.m.

Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Kim Shore

Thank you for being so interested.

I think as parents we mistakenly assume that the people we are handing our children over to, the coaches who have asked us to grant them professional respect and professional trust, are not safeguarding our children.

We need culture change from the bottom up and the top down in order to protect our children better, and we need people in positions of leadership who will put the needs of children ahead of their own agendas for career advancement or for the protection of the brand.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Kim, we're having some technical difficulties. I'm looking at the interpreters. I've stopped the clock. We'll see where we're going. You have a minute and 12 seconds left, because I keep on stopping it.

We're going to suspend a second. We want to make sure everything is good.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Once the interpreters are back in their space, I think we're back on track.

We will be taking this time and just adding this time at the end, since we've had to stop. We're really sorry about this.

Anita, you have a minute and 12 seconds left.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Thank you so much for that very honest answer.

Ms. Cline, you looked like you wanted to add something to that, so I'll give the rest of the time to you to also respond.

11:35 a.m.

Lawyer and Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Amelia Cline

Thank you.

Madam Chair, if you'll indulge me a few extra seconds, you referenced that Gymnastics Canada has had effectively the same harassment officer for approximately 30 years. We understand that Dr. Gretchen Kerr has been the go-to harassment officer for primarily most of the complaints that have come through Gymnastics Canada in the last 30 years. In those 30 years, unfortunately what we have now had reported to us is that abuse has thrived in that time. We have serious concerns and serious reservations about how complaints have been handled. We have received some very concerning reports regarding Dr. Kerr's conduct.

We will be circulating a five-page brief in which a story in that regard will be articulated to the committee. Essentially, it involves the sexual abuse of several athletes, some of whom were minors. Initially Gymnastics Canada told those complainants that because the person who was the perpetrator was no longer under contract, Gymnastics Canada could not investigate. They eventually opened an investigation when the Centre for Ethics in Sport insisted that Gymnastics Canada open an investigation.

I have a copy of the report that Dr. Kerr created. It essentially summarizes the allegations, but it makes no findings whatsoever of whether those reports were credible. It declines to offer any sort of discipline for that individual. Instead, it says that the complainants should report it to the massage college. It then recommends that if that individual ever reapplies to work for Gymnastics Canada, her file should be reviewed.

There is no discipline history for this person, who has allegedly sexually abused at least five athletes, some of whom were minors. We understand that there was no contact with the police from Gymnastics Canada when they received these reports. As a result, this individual could theoretically continue working, not just in gymnastics but in other sports, because there is currently no discipline history.

When you ask why this is has continued to be a problem for decades, these are exactly the problems we are concerned about.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Amelia, thank you so much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Andréanne Larouche.

I'll remind everybody to put on your earpieces so you get the interpretation. Make sure the volume is up so you hear it right from the start.

Andréanne, the floor is yours.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Ms. Cline, Ms. Shore and Mr. Koehler, thank you for being here today to contribute to this study, which is vital to the safety of girls in sport.

Let me start by saying that I spent my childhood in gyms, cheering on my sister who competed in gymnastics at a fairly high level. I saw the pressure she was under. The pressure on young girls was ever-present. I also saw the lack of body diversity you mentioned. Thank you for your sharing your stories.

Ms. Shore and Mr. Koehler, I saw you this summer at a meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. What did you take away from what you heard this summer? Why do you think this study matters? Why are you here today? In light of what happened with Hockey Canada this summer, do you feel it's important to shine a spotlight on other sports?

11:40 a.m.

Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Kim Shore

This past summer, we self-funded our trip to Ottawa to be present to hear the members of Hockey Canada defend themselves against complaints, allegations and accusations that Rob and my team, Gymnasts for Change, and I know all too well. We wanted to hear what they had to say first-hand, and we heard the same things from that group that I have heard from leaders in gymnastics for the last six years as a board member on two boards.

They were evasive. They were not transparent. Even when they were compelled to testify and hand over documents, they resisted.

That is what we fear. That's why a culture review of any sort—such as the one that Gymnastics Canada is currently paying for with the McLaren Group or, frankly, the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner—is not going to suffice. They agree that a culture review is not going to suffice because we can't hope that the NSOs, the national sports organizations, are going to voluntarily hand over all their dirty secrets to us.

11:40 a.m.

Director General, Global Athlete

Rob Koehler

I think what I've learned and what we've learned with the athletes from the 12 sports is evident. We have survivors with us today. They're not here from the sport of gymnastics because they want to be.

Sport has not been able to self-regulate, and it almost appears that they're more interested in protecting the brand than exposing the truth. We heard in the summer that Sport Canada failed in its duties. We've seen sport structures continue to be established to address human rights issues.

Sport can't self-regulate. No other industry in Canada or globally has the ability to regulate itself. I think what we've learned is that it needs to be taken away.

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Koehler, Ms. Shore and Ms. Cline, you brought up the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner, the OSIC, which is the organization the minister, Ms. St-Onge, created.

Do athletes have confidence in the OSIC? If so, can you tell us why?

11:40 a.m.

Lawyer and Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Amelia Cline

I don't believe athletes trust this system that has been set up. There are a number of reasons for that. It is still very deeply embedded within the sports system, which, as you've been hearing this morning, athletes do not trust.

A good example is that the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner is overseen by the SDRCC, the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada. On the SDRCC board, appointed earlier this year, is a person who also sat on the board of Gymnastics Canada. When he was initially appointed to the SDRCC board, he in fact was still an active board member of Gymnastics Canada. That is the body that oversees the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner. How does any gymnast have any trust in an office that is being overseen by the very people who would need to be investigated?

There are a number of different ways in which we are concerned that this office is not equipped to investigate these matters. There's no subpoena power, as Kim was alluding to. There's no ability to compel these NSOs to participate in any sort of review. There's no ability to enforce any recommendations that come out of a report from the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner.

We understand that the office is working hard to try to shore up some of those gaps, but at the moment it is not equipped to investigate the types of abuses we are seeing come forward.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Andréanne, your time is up. I'll make sure, though, that we get around to you one more time. Your time is up.

Okay, Leah, you have six minutes.

November 21st, 2022 / 11:40 a.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you so much, Chair.

I just want to start by thanking all of the witnesses today for coming forward with quite raw truths.

Madame Shore, I was very touched when you spoke about the fact that when you came forward to disclose abuse, people didn't believe you. I want to acknowledge how violent that is and how retraumatizing that is. I want—I'm sorry, I'm emotional—to say that I hope you, all of you, have some justice here and that people will hear you and acknowledge your truth.

I just wanted to start off with that, and just to say that I absolutely agree with the witnesses that this is an absolute human rights crisis, and certainly a failure to uphold the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child specifically, for example article 19, which states:

States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child.

I was really struck by one of the things that you spoke about, Ms. Cline, which is the fact that there is no requirement for coaches to have to take an abuse registry check. To have an abuse registry check is something that is required of all teachers—I was a teacher—and even for early childhood educators. I was also an early childhood educator.

Do you think changing the regulations to make that a requirement would make a difference in the protection of children?

11:45 a.m.

Lawyer and Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Amelia Cline

I certainly do think that would be a very important change. I think what we have seen is, again, sport being able to operate outside of many of the other norms that other professions already adhere to. It's never made a lot of sense to me that it has been an exception, given how vulnerable child athletes are.

I think developing a nationwide child abuse registry for coaches would certainly have an impact.

11:45 a.m.

Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Kim Shore

I would like to add that the background check system in Canada is woefully inadequate. That is a very big part of this problem. It is almost impossible for employers, gymnastics clubs, soccer clubs, etc. to do adequate background checks on their potential hires.

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I would agree with you, Ms. Shore, particularly with the fact that it seems as though coaches who have committed abuses are kept protected, and so their behaviour would never would make it to a registry. That makes perfect sense to me.

Mr. Koehler, you said that sport cannot regulate itself, and that's clear to me, so I have a couple of questions.

One, who is currently appointing members to the regulatory board? Who is the one who appoints?

Two, what would an alternative look like for oversight? Who would appoint and what would the third party investigation look like?

Who currently appoints? What would the alternative would look like? What would a third party investigation look like?

11:45 a.m.

Director General, Global Athlete

Rob Koehler

Madam Chair, thank you for the question.

What we're seeing in sport and what we're seeing as the solution in sport now is to move sport people around into different positions. Having worked internationally and in Canada, I know personally that if I'm friends with someone, it's a lot harder for me to call them out. I have gotten past that now in my job, but it's a lot harder. There is an internal network of everybody knowing each other and everybody trying to protect each other. That's why you have to remove that from sport.

I use the example of anti-doping. I spent 20 years at the World Anti-Doping Agency. As a result of the Dubin inquiry, drug testing was taken away from sporting organizations. It's independent now. We have to do the same thing for abuse in sport.

The second thing is that if you listen to any survivor who has come forward, they are alone. They have no guidance and no support. What we would advocate is a touchpoint so an athlete can come somewhere to get the support, and they will have the guidance and they will make those people doing the investigations accountable.

An independent investigation, I think, could replicate what we have seen with the Dubin inquiry. It needs to be done by non-sport people. It needs to be judicial and it needs to make sure that everybody has the right to tell their story.

The final thing is that those people who were abusers or enablers need to be held accountable. I think that's crucially important.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

That's awesome. Thank you so much.

I'm messing with the time, of course. What I am going to do is four minutes for the CPC, four minutes for the Liberals, two minutes for the Bloc and for the NDP, and then we will finish up with two minutes for the Conservatives and two minutes for the Liberals. That will end the panels for today.

I'm going to now pass it over for four minutes to Dominique Vien.

Dominique, you have the floor.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to each and everyone of you for being here this morning. Your input is very enlightening and will inform the work we do.

It's very hard to listen to your stories. I have a multitude of questions, but not enough time to ask them all.

We are in the #MeToo era, and victims are speaking out. Athletes also want the truth to come out.

My sense is that, day to day, coaches tend to be the ones causing problems for the athletes. You said earlier that it was hard to screen coaches or that it wasn't done properly. I was astounded to hear that background or criminal record checks weren't done more often. These are individuals who work with vulnerable populations. In Quebec, people who work with the elderly in private seniors' homes are screened extensively.

As we speak, what is the process for hiring a coach?

The question is for all three witnesses.

11:50 a.m.

Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Kim Shore

I'll start by saying that the legal system has let down sport as well. The legal system has particularly let gymnastics down. Even recently, we have had multiple coaches let off, stays of proceedings and acquittals, and that's if we can get enough evidence and enough brave witnesses to come forward to even take a complaint all the way through the legal process, and that's about one out of a thousand. If the legal system lets us down, then that person doesn't have a criminal record to be checked with the background check.

What we also are dealing with are hundreds of coaches who are indoctrinated with the mentality that to produce an athlete, you must use harsh techniques, you must shame them, you must guilt them and you must physically manipulate their bodies into positions, despite the pain or injury it causes. There's no registry for that, and there are no criminal charges for that. Children can be brutalized.

My colleague Amelia was overstretched in splits with her leg above her head by her male coach, who snapped her hamstring off her pelvis, and it took a piece of bone with it. There's no registry for that. We don't protect our children beyond the family. If a parent puts a cigarette burn on a child, they'll be called to task, but a coach who physically damages a child is not held to the same account.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you.

We're going to pass it over to Sonia Sidhu. Sonia, here are your four minutes.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses and survivors for being with us, and thank you for your bravery. We need to work together on this.

My first question is this: How can we encourage sport organizations to meet higher standards for the government's accountability for safe sport, and how can we teach coaches about the gender-based gap?

11:55 a.m.

Lawyer and Co-Founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada

Amelia Cline

I think there are a number of different mechanisms that can be put in place to fix some of these problems.

First, I think a key element in what we're seeing is that there has been very little accountability for these coaches who have acted abusively. As my colleague was saying, many of these emotionally and physically abusive coaches are never brought to account, and that's because, first of all, the criminal system will generally not charge them, even though what my colleague described was, in fact, assault. The criminal system will not charge it, and the complaint system that exists within Gymnastics Canada and within these provincial sport bodies is so retraumatizing and so arduous for complainants to go through that many burn out before there's ever a result.

In my case, when I tried to bring my abuse forward in 2021, Gymnastics Canada hired a case manager who told me to my face that I needed to manage my expectations about the outcome, that even though my alleged abuse was incredibly severe, he had seen enough of these investigations to know that I could not expect my coaches to be banned from the sport, and in fact that I could probably not expect them to receive a lengthy suspension.

That is exactly what the problem is: Coaches are allowed to do this with no expectation that they're going to ever be held to account by the organization itself.