Status of Women Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You're aligned.

Do you do webinars or anything with them? You're just aligned.

[Allison Forsyth]

Yes. I do webinars supporting Sarah-Ève Pelletier as functional support, but no, I don't work within OSIC at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay. I wanted to get everything in line.

Andréanne Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I get the impression we're just as disconnected from reality today as the Hockey Canada representatives who appeared before the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage were in the summer, at a meeting I also attended. You'd think no one's responsible. There's no accountability. And yet, as Ms. Demers said, there were 16 recommendations in 2016. We're still hearing horror stories today in 2020.

Ms. Asselin, can you provide us with some clarification on the present system for monitoring assault cases in sport in Canada?

Does the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner report to you, the head of the SDRCC?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

Yes, operationally, the commissioner reports to me, since I make sure she has the necessary resources, employees and expertise in her office to do her work. Functionally, however, she's independent of me. I'm unaware, for example, of the files that she and her staff handle. She does that independently of me. That's how the administrative structure is.

I could also tell you about the board of directors because people talk about it. Under the enabling act of the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada, the federal Minister of Sport appoints the 12 board members. When the SDRCC was established, the sport community determined that three of the seats on its board would be reserved for athletes and that there would also be a coach, a representative of a national sport organization and a representative of a multisport games organization. The other six members come from the legal community and the dispute resolution field.

So it's a committee that has the strategic role of adopting policies. We ensure that the team has the necessary resources, expertise, personnel and funding to carry out that mandate.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's great, Ms. Asselin. Pardon me for rushing you, but time is passing and I have more questions for you.

Who appoints the people who investigate complaints? Have you established a due diligence process that must be followed within the SDRCC, before assigning a complaint case to a professional, to assure the victims that the professionals assigned to their case have no conflicts of interest, history or connections with the predators and national sport organizations at the centre of the dispute?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

Yes. Investigators, mediators and arbitrators are required to sign a declaration of independence after examining the case file, and all are required to comply with a rigorous code of conduct. They're also subject to the SDRCC's conflict of interest policy.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Are any of SDRCC's sport arbitrators trained or used to investigate reported abuse cases?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

No. The arbitrators and investigators form two separate groups. The investigators gather information and conduct interviews of victims and witnesses, whereas the arbitrators intervene later on in the process if investigation findings are challenged by the participants.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Does the SDRCC have any investigators, mediators or arbitrators who perform multiple roles in the sport communities? I'm thinking, for example, of an arbitrator who might also be hired by national sport organizations for contract work.

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

At the moment, there are none in the safe sport component, that is to say on the Safeguarding Tribunal.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Does Ms. Pelletier, at the OSIC, report to you, the head of the SDRCC?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

As I explained earlier, she reports to me solely from an operational, not functional, standpoint.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

In that case, wouldn't it have been a good idea for her to accompany you today to provide her point of view as well?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

The SDRCC was invited as an organization, and I was designated to represent it. No specific request was made to have the commissioner attend.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I'm also troubled by the SDRCC's confidentiality policy. Survivors who engage in the OSIC process are subject to an effective gag order and are reduced to silence. Why have you decided to silence athletes when they complain to the OSIC?

As I said earlier, I feel like we're disconnected from reality here. I hear everything you've said since earlier, but what I see and what I hear is the unanimous opinion of athletes and victims: these people don't trust your office.

I'm troubled by this confidentiality policy. What do you have to say about that?

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

I can talk about that, absolutely.

First, the athletes' personal experiences are their own, and they have a right to discuss them. Where we pay attention to confidentiality in the context of proceedings is where we also have to protect other athletes, witnesses or vulnerable individuals who might participate in the investigation.

Consequently, there are definitely confidentiality rules, but an athlete who has experienced abuse is absolutely not muzzled and may absolutely discuss it.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Asselin, why have so few sport organizations signed on to the program? I've counted seven out of the total number of sport federations. Once again, I sense that we're disconnected from reality here. In addition to the lack of trust that I perceive in the victims, this lack of participation in the program is another significant factor.

[Marie-Claude Asselin]

As I said earlier, our jurisdiction is contractual. Since we aren't a statutory tribunal, we don't have universal authority over everyone who's involved in sport in Canada. That authority must be acquired through service agreements with the federations.

Even though only six of them are officially active, federations sign agreements with us every day and every week. We already have 27 agreements, or 28, I believe, since yesterday. You have to understand that these federations are in transition because they have a lot of obligations to meet under our agreement. We have to assist them to ensure that policies are properly adopted and to establish a relationship of consent with their members so we can investigate them in the event a complaint is filed.

So there are steps that must be followed. It's a lot of work for the federations, which weren't necessarily set up to welcome us. We're working with them now, and I know that many of them are still preparing to sign their agreement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 30 seconds.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I understand, Ms. Asselin, but I repeat: six still isn't enough.

Furthermore, the Canadian policy on sport is currently under review. The witnesses that we've heard in committee say not only that they don't trust the system, but also that they aren't being listened to regarding this new policy that Sport Canada is supposed to adopt in February. There's also a lack of trust in your office. I'm trying to make sense of this, but I really get the impression there's an obvious hitch in the present system.

I repeat that recommendations have been in place since 2016, and it's striking to see how few of them have been implemented.

Furthermore, Ms. Demers, in my next turn, I'd like to speak with you and find out how many of those recommendations have been implemented.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you.

We are getting very tight, so I'll give six minutes to Leah, and then we'll look at round two as we're getting to it.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Because I have such a limited amount of time, I want to thank everybody for coming today.

My first question is a yes-or-no question. I apologize. I don't like doing those, but it is very clear for both of you, Madame Forsyth and Madame Asselin.

We've heard from a lot of witnesses about their desire to call for a federal judicial inquiry. Do you agree, yes or no?

I'll start with you, Ms. Forsyth. Yes or no?

[Allison Forsyth]

I can't give you a yes or no, because it depends. We have limited funds, and I want that to go first and foremost towards prevention.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You're uncertain.