Transport Committee on June 15th, 2006

[Marc Grégoire]

We do not need legislation. We are currently rewriting the entire regulatory framework, which will permit the enactment or coming into force of the Canada Shipping Act of 2001.

We still do not have draft regulations to make SMS mandatory, but the SMS are part of our priorities for 2010 or prior to that, for all modes of transportation. We are currently examining the issue.

The priority until 2007 is to rewrite all of the regulations on marine safety, as we are still subject to the Canada Shipping Act, which is very old.

In 2001, Parliament introduced the Canada Shipping Act of 2001, but we still need to rewrite some regulations before the act comes into force. We are focusing our efforts on that task.

Bill, are there more discussions on SMS for other ships?

[William J. Nash, A/Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport]

With respect to making it mandatory in the domestic area, there aren't. We have found, though, as mentioned, that a great number of the larger vessels across Canada—pretty well all the Great Lakes fleet—are voluntarily complying with SMS. There is an interest among certain operators of tugs on the west coast in bringing in safety management systems that will possibly enable us to reduce some inspections and work with them on a pilot project.

So we are working at various ways and means to encourage and promote.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

You don't feel, then, the need to make it mandatory to increase maritime security?

[Marc Grégoire]

We're still looking at it, and looking at this question throughout. We're having the same kinds of discussions with the smaller aircraft that are not subject yet to the regulations.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

We have spoken at great length about rail transportation. If I understood correctly, the additional inspections are conducted by the railway companies. Can Transport Canada do its own inspections of the rail system and does it have inspectors to do that?

[Marc Grégoire]

My remarks were undoubtedly unclear. Both the railway company and Transport Canada can do inspections. We have 105 inspectors throughout the country for the rail sector.

Last summer, following some accidents, we notified CN that we would be much more active in its area of activity. We inspected a large number of tracks, rail yards, and trains. We subsequently imposes on CN a series of measures ranging from speed reductions in certain places, to changes in its operations. For its part, CN implemented a number of measures to enhance safety. The impact was positive right from the start of the year.

Luc Bourdon can provide additional details.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Can you ask CN to invest to improve its rail infrastructure, or are we talking more about measures like speed reduction?

[Marc Grégoire]

Since CN is a private company, we cannot force it to invest. However, after we mentioned that the tracks should be improved in several places, CN willingly accepted to invest approximately $1.5 billion this year in infrastructure. A dialogue is in place between the two parties.

However, safety rules must be respected. If we feel that a segment of track is not safe for a train travelling at 60 miles an hour, we can impose a speed reduction. CN must subsequently, as any company would do, invest capital to make the necessary improvements.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Will the safety management system reduce the number of accidents? Will Transport Canada withdraw once the security systems are all in place? Once the operator has understood the safety management system, do you expect to withdraw or use a different approach at Transport Canada?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is more or less it. It is not a withdrawal, but a different approach. If an operator can convince us that its operations are very safe and comply with all Transport Canada acts and regulations, we will not need to be involved as often.

We are currently training our inspectors to evaluate and verify the safety management systems. If an inspector is convinced that the safety management system works well, that the problems are reported by the employees, and that these problems are dealt with on a priority basis by taking remedial measures, we do not need to be involved as often. However, if we find that the safety management system is not working, we will take strict action, in all cases.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Mr. Bell.

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you.

I have a question. First of all, how much is your Department of Transport budget annually?

[Marc Grégoire]

I'm sorry, I didn't bring the Transport Canada budget. I don't have the overall departmental budget. I have my own budget, but not the whole—

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

What is the budget for SMS?

[Marc Grégoire]

I don't have an SMS budget; I have a safety and security budget. If we start by talking about people, in Transport Canada we have about 5,000 people, roughly speaking, and 3,400 of them are working in safety and security. Of those 3,400, about half are in Ottawa and the other half are separated into five regions in roughly 65 offices across the country.

I can go deeper into details—

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Let's go back to the 5,000 employees you have. They're in what—in Transport in total, of whom 3,400 are in safety and security?

[Marc Grégoire]

The others are in programs operating the ports we still own, or in airports, and we have employees in corporate services, in finance, in HR, in communication, in informatics, and in policy, developing the economic policy of the department. There's a group in programs for the environment....

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

What is your budget, then, for safety and security?

[Marc Grégoire]

For safety and security for 2006-07, our overall budget is $421 million for all of safety and security across the country. I can break it down by mode, if you're interested, but I have to know—

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I just wanted to get an order of magnitude.

How long have you been using this SMS program? How long has it been going? It's relatively new, isn't it?

[Marc Grégoire]

It is very new. We started the reflection on the need to make the shift about 10 years ago, in the mid-1990s, when we were seeking ways to improve safety. We started to implement it through various regulatory measures about five or six years ago: in 2001 in rail; in aviation it's more recent. The conversation or dialogue with the stakeholders and all the parties affected has been going on for many years, but the first regulation in aviation came a little over a year ago.

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I'm jumping around because some of the questions I was going to ask have been answered.

Going back to the issue of marine safety, you talked about the number of ships. My colleague asked the question about the number of Canadian companies and you indicated there were thousands, which takes into account even fishing vessels, etc.

On the international shipping, where we have 60 ships and more than 20 companies, what would that represent as a percentage of the international market for us?

[Marc Grégoire]

That is a very, very small portion of the international traffic. Canada is a small maritime country.

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Okay, let me put it the other way. Of the Canadian companies involved in international shipping, what percentage do these 20 companies and 60 ships represent?

[Marc Grégoire]

You mean, how many ships are flagged as Canada by the Canadian owners?