Evidence of meeting #10 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, gentlemen, for appearing before us today.
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
It's a pleasure.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
As you know, last week, or actually at our last meeting, we had the Transportation Safety Board appear before us. I asked them a question regarding the relationship between the work they do, which is primarily investigative, and the enforcement functions, which they, of course, don't perform.
Am I correct in assuming that enforcement is your role?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Yes, you are correct.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right. So it's within your mandate to lay charges, where that's appropriate, and take such other enforcement proceedings as required to keep our various modes of transport safe?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
You are correct. That's why we have been given the resources to do so by the government. We have 1,381 inspectors in the various modes doing just that.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Oh my God, a lot. But it depends on the mode.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Well, let's talk about the modes.
We've talked about three already: rail, marine, and air. What's completely missing, and it surprises me, is the whole issue of transportation on our highways and roads. I believe I'm on safe ground in suggesting that by far the majority of loss of life, loss of limb, injury, and probably property damage comes on our national and provincial highways.
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Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Yes, by far, by thousands more. Many thousands of lives are lost on the roads every year.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Am I correct in assuming that you didn't raise that as one of the three major modes of transport due to the fact that the provinces, for the most part, have jurisdiction over much of that?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Yes.
I also have a branch of road safety. It's quite different from the aviation or marine environments; they are solely federally regulated.
In the road safety environment, it's a shared responsibility with the provinces and territories. We legislate and regulate in regard to the vehicles themselves—the new vehicles, the construction of vehicles, the bumpers, seat belts, airbags. We regulate all of those facets.
We also regulate the National Safety Code for Motor Carriers, so the trucking industry is shared regulation. For instance, we have regulation on hours of service, which was looked at in depth by this committee a few years ago. This is shared. So we have to promulgate a regulation on the federal level, and then it has to be implemented by all the other administrations throughout Canada.
We do not enforce directly. We have MOUs--memorandums of understanding--with the provinces for the enforcement of the National Safety Code. So it's done by the safety inspectors of the provinces, but with some of our money through an MOU.
Noon
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Just following up on the whole issue of enforcement, do you typically react to recommendations that come from the TSB, or do you start your own parallel investigations when there has been an accident?
Let's talk about rail, for example. Say we have a derailment. The TSB investigates. I understand from the TSB that because their mandate is limited to the investigation of accidents and the making of recommendations, they don't lay charges; they don't enforce. In fact, evidence gathered by them typically would not be used in enforcement proceedings that are commenced by your department.
Am I correct in assuming, then, that you would have a parallel investigation to that conducted by the TSB?
Noon
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
You are correct, but it's not systematic. First of all, it's not all accidents that are being investigated by the TSB. It's the big accidents, and they have ratings depending on what kind of accident.
So we may have a parallel investigation at the same time as TSB is running one, or we may do it after, or we may do an investigation even though TSB wouldn't do one. All cases are possible.
Noon
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Do you have access to the evidence gathered by the investigation conducted by the TSB?
Noon
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
We see all the evidence because we have an observer. The minister appoints an observer for all major TSB investigations. As soon as the TSB goes to the site of an accident to start an investigation, we appoint an observer to make sure whatever deficiencies found during the investigation are relayed to the minister through us, so we can act immediately to make any safety corrections needed.
For instance, if an investigator of the TSB found that some gizmo on a train was defective and could affect the whole fleet, we would need to know because we would have to contact all of the operators of that same thing. In the case of aviation, we might need to issue a directive to the whole industry. So that's why we have an observer.
I don't think we can use all of that investigation for enforcement. There's some of it we cannot use, and that's why we have a separate investigation.
Noon
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We find that speed and track conditions are probably the most important factors. I brought this up just the other day at a previous committee. With the New Brunswick East Coast Railway, there have been certain sections of track where speeds have been reduced significantly over the last period of time. This is of great concern, not only to people who travel the rail but also to the economy of an area. How do you communicate those notices of safety requirements, in terms of changes or reductions in track speed?
This came to public attention at a meeting in Montreal of Transport 2000, which brought this information to the public. Are there other ways to get that message out to communities and to the stakeholders who are involved in those situations?
Noon
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Do you mean advise the population that we have taken action against a specific railway and have forced them to reduce the speed?
Noon
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
The company is advised, but I don't recall that we do very many press releases on those actions.
Luc.
Noon
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
New Brunswick East Coast is a provincially regulated railway, not a federally regulated one. We do some enforcement on them, but through a memorandum of understanding.
Noon
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
You have me more worried now, because VIA Rail uses that rail line big-time. If we're not looking after the safety concerns on that line, I just wonder what kind of legislation--
Noon
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
VIA Rail has an obligation to make sure the lines they're running on are safe. That's part of their mandate. They're not going to get into a contractual agreement if it's not safe.
