Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Donald Roussel  Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport
Victor Santos-Pedro  Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, meeting number 8. The orders of the day are pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 25, 2009, Bill C-3, An Act to amend the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act.

Once again we have the pleasure of welcoming the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable John Baird. The minister's plan is to be with us for the first hour. Staying for the duration of the meeting will be the departmental officials: Mr. Donald Roussel, director general, marine safety; Victor M. Santos-Pedro, director, design, equipment and boating safety; and Lysane Durand, legal counsel, legal services.

Minister, we welcome you today. We look forward to your comments on this very important bill. I'm sure there'll be some questions to follow.

If you'd like, please proceed.

March 24th, 2009 / 3:30 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of Transport

Thank you very much, Chairman Tweed. I am very pleased to be here today to discuss Bill C-3, An Act to amend the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act. As a northern country, Canada's Arctic is central to our national identity. It's an expression of our deepest aspirations, our sense of exploration, and our limitless potential.

Over the last three years this government has demonstrated its commitment to Canada's Arctic by introducing measures to help the north realize its vast potential. We have pressed Canada's Arctic sovereignty to the world, protected our environmental heritage for the benefit of all Canadians, and promoted economic and social development throughout this important region of Canada.

On a personal note, my time as Minister of the Environment and particularly as Minister responsible for Parks Canada offered me the opportunity to help protect our northern region. I'm particularly proud of significant land conservation measures we undertook in the Northwest Territories, proud of the progress we made toward expanding Nahanni, and proud of the efforts we undertook around Slave Lake, to name a few successes.

The bill before us today, the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act, allows Canada to carry out its responsibility to preserve the fragile ecological balance in the water, ice, and land areas of the Canadian Arctic by prohibiting the dumping of waste in Arctic waters. This act also requires that Arctic waters adjacent to the mainland and islands of the Canadian Arctic be navigated in a way that respects the residents of Canada's northern communities. Bill C-3 seeks to replace the definition of Arctic waters in the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act. It extends the geographical application from 100 nautical miles to 200 nautical miles, which is the maximum area Canada is allowed under international law. The doubling of the application allows us to strengthen our pollution protection regime, not just now but particularly in the years and decades to come as the Northwest Passage and the Arctic waters become more traversable.

Bill C-3 proposes a relatively simple amendment, yet it demonstrates to the world that Canada is serious about protecting the Arctic marine environment and more. The potential growth of international shipping, while key to the economic development of our Arctic, may also bring challenges. It raises the potential of environmental threats like oil spills, poaching, and contamination, which would be particularly acute in the sensitive Arctic ecosystem. The extension from 100 nautical miles to 200 nautical miles will ensure an appropriate basis for managing risks of pollution from vessels. For Canada to truly exercise effective management in the Arctic, we need to put in place a strong and proactive regulatory framework for marine transportation and we need to back that up with real action. We're very much being proactive in this regard, not waiting for next year, or 10 years, or 25 years from now for an accident to happen and for us to regret not taking more proactive measures.

Transport Canada is already planning to assess the transportation infrastructure needs in the north for the next 20 to 30 years. Over the next five years Transport Canada is dedicating $1 million, under the gateways and border crossings fund, to support a northern transportation research program. We are increasing support for the coast guard, and in the coming years we will welcome a new icebreaker, the John George Diefenbaker, which will play an important role in enforcing our Arctic sovereignty. I know all members of the committee share my enthusiasm not just because it's a new coast guard vessel but particularly because it's so aptly named. The Prime Minister made this announcement in Inuvik, where Prime Minister Diefenbaker officially opened the community some 50 years ago.

We've seen an increased number of environmental enforcement officers, many of whom were trained at Algonquin College in my own riding of Ottawa West--Nepean. It should be noted that my colleague the Minister of the Environment, has also introduced Bill C-16, the Environmental Enforcement Act, which addresses the important issue of enforcement of our environmental protection and wildlife conservation laws. I had the opportunity to work on that before the last cabinet shuffle.

While Bill C-3 helps to provide an appropriate basis for managing the environmental risks of the intensification of marine activities in the Arctic, it is only the beginning. Further amendments are also needed to protect the environment, increase the security of our waterways, establish the framework for future economic development, and to strengthen the exercise of Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic. We have done that through many ways, whether it's through our military, through science, through research, through the coast guard, through economic development, but we can also do it environmentally.

This government is committed to introducing regulations under the Canada Shipping Act to require vessels entering Canada's Arctic waters to report to the Canadian Coast Guard's NORDREG reporting system. We are working toward having these regulations in place for the 2010 shipping season.

Under the current regime, reporting is voluntary. Our changes will make reporting mandatory and will apply to all Canadian waters north of sixty, including the increased area of application of the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act that will result if and when Bill C-3 is passed.

These measures will send a clear message to the world that Canada takes responsibility for environmental protection and enforcement in our Arctic waters. Extending the application of the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act will demonstrate the government's commitment to the Arctic and to managing the environmental tasks associated with marine transport in the Arctic.

Canada's future is tied to an Arctic that is vibrant and thriving. With this legislation we're protecting our sovereignty over the Arctic and we're developing our northern resources. Together we are protecting this precious and sensitive ecosystem for future generations of this planet.

Thank you very much.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Bagnell, you have seven minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Minister, for coming and for bringing this act forward.

As people watching on TV probably know, Pierre Trudeau created the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act. It was very forward thinking and led the Arctic nations in preventing pollution in the Arctic. This is just a technical amendment to the distance that applies under the 1996 Oceans Act, extending our authority an extra 100 miles. This 13-line act extends our authority an extra 100 miles.

The question I have is related to how the government plans to enforce this act. We have just added an area that needs to be enforced of perhaps 500,000 square miles. That area is the size of Saskatchewan. How does the government plan to enforce this act? What is the use of doing this?

The Prime Minister's first promise made to the north was for three icebreakers. As the minister knows, he cancelled that promise and has promised one at some time in the distant future. That's not going to help enforce the act if we pass it soon. He promised still-undelivered patrol boats that can only go through a metre of ice, while the ice can be six metres. The military told us at the defence committee meeting last week that they could only be there three months a year. Last summer there was an explosion in the Arctic, and a few days later a sub sighting that the government refuses to tell Canadians anything about.

The government wasn't there for those, and if it's not there now in the Arctic, how is it possibly going to be there when it has to be, now that this act has expanded another 500,000 square miles of space to be covered?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I'll turn it over to my director general, Donald Roussel, who will give you specifics on that matter.

3:40 p.m.

Donald Roussel Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We have at this moment a Dash 7 that is solely dedicated to patrolling the Arctic. It was actually deployed last year. This Dash 7 is part of the fleet of our pollution prevention system. It is part of a fleet of three planes that fly the Pacific, the Arctic, and the Atlantic.

We also have additional flying time that we buy from the private sector in the pollution prevention sector. Also, as we speak, work is being done at the coast guard to ensure that they have additional capacity in case of oil spills in the Arctic. Of course there is a lot of work to be done on that front, but they're taking into account this extended portion of the Arctic Ocean, mainly in the west Arctic, which consists of the section above 100 miles north of Canada and west of the archipelago. They are also looking at additional oversight using satellites and additional services for what we call METAREA and NAVAREA to better serve the Canadian Arctic and the operators in that area.

That is what is done at this moment.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

There are also other integrated efforts, whether with satellite technology, through efforts of the men and women in the coast guard, or through the armed forces as required. Additionally, we can rely on the expertise of not just Fisheries and Oceans Canada but also Environment Canada, which is not only toughening up environmental enforcement but also providing more enforcement officers, which will also provide assistance.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Exactly how many planes, boats, and officers does Environment Canada have in this area?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Two years ago we announced an increase of 100 new environmental enforcement officers, and they are now being trained. We can draw on them and their expertise as required.

We are playing catch-up with respect to getting more vessels into the area. We are moving forward with an aggressive plan there. I wish it had been done 10 or 15 years ago, but we're moving forward as aggressively as we can.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

You said Environment Canada could cover, but you don't even know whether they have any planes or boats.

My question goes on to something Mr. Rousseau raised, but it's for the minister.

In your speech—which was a good speech, actually—in the House of Commons on this bill, you waxed eloquent about the 19,000 Inuit on Ungava Bay; you want to keep it clean for them. You said you talked to your constituents, who wanted to keep this area clean; it was very important to them to do everything possible to promote sound environmental practices. But then you went on to talk about how 33% of the world's remaining gas and 25% of the oil—huge quantities, in any event—are there.

Canada doesn't have the ability to clean up oil under ice or in ice patches. The technology doesn't exist at this time. And so as a former environment minister and a minister making the point that we have to do everything we can to promote sound environmental practices—words from your speech—what do you plan as a means to deal with this development? You said it is coming and it's important to be able to clean up oil spills under the ice.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Obviously all three territorial governments have identified economic development as an important priority. The Yukon economy has done well; the Northwest Territories economy has done extraordinarily well in recent years; the Nunavut economy has had more challenges. Resource extraction is a key part of economic development, identified by northerners. Obviously one of our goals is not to see that simply be riches coming on to those folks from southern Canada, but also riches to allow people in the north to take advantage of those economic opportunities.

Whether it's on land or under ice, we'll obviously use the best technology available. We'll also ensure that it's done as well as it is physically possible to do in order to ensure the preservation of a pretty sensitive ecosystem. We'll do it in cooperation with the three territorial governments. We'll do it in cooperation with the various federal departments who have strong interests there.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Do you think that's an acceptable answer, Mr. Minister? You say we'll use the best technology available. Well, the best technology available cannot deal with oil under ice, and if you ask, any professor expert in the north will explain to you how that oil will just circulate in the circular ocean patterns in the Arctic and damage a terribly fragile environment, causing unlimited damage.

My question was what you are going to do to improve the technology, to come up with something that can actually deal with this, before we do the development.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

My colleague the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development can speak better to that, as can my colleague the Minister of Natural Resources; they have lead responsibility in that regard.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

And the environment?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

You can talk to my colleague the Minister of the Environment as well.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Monsieur Laframboise.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Do we keep track of the number of ships in the present 100 miles? Who does keep track of that?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Can you repeat the question?

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Do we keep track of the number of ships operating in the present 100 nautical miles?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I am sorry, but I do not understand.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Do we keep track of the number of ships operating in the present 100 nautical miles? Do we know how many ships are there?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Yes, we have those figures. I will ask my colleague to answer.

3:45 p.m.

Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport

Donald Roussel

Mr. Laframboise, I do not have those figures with me today. We know the exact number of ships in both the eastern and western parts of the Arctic. There is very little traffic in the new zone located west of the archipelago and north of the Northwest Territories. I can provide the committee with those details.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Very good.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

We can give those figures to the members of the committee.