Evidence of meeting #9 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was oversight.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you, Mr. Watson.
I understand that we are at the end of our time. I have consulted with members.
Would you be prepared to stay, or could you stay, for another 15 minutes if requested?
9:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Business Aviation Association
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
You're okay with that? I know that everybody is on schedules here.
Okay. We're going to go with one more round of five minutes.
Ms. Crombie.
April 15th, 2010 / 9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Mignault, what's SMS to you?
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
The only reason I changed it is that originally we had two witnesses scheduled and one cancelled this morning. I thought that since we started a few minutes late it would be fair to give these gentlemen a chance to answer questions.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
It will be five-minute rounds, three times.
We'll go back to Ms. Crombie's question.
10 a.m.
Capt Jacques Mignault
This is a large question. I'll try to be as brief as possible. To me, SMS is really, within an organization, a formalized way of addressing safety and involving, as was said before, every single employee within the company and all departments. It creates a focus on safety in whatever the airline gets involved in. In other words--
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you.
How was it implemented? What training was done? How long does this training of the employees last?
10 a.m.
Capt Jacques Mignault
On the way it was implemented, we established a formal reporting system in a non-punitive environment that encouraged people to come forward and provide whatever concerns they might have about safety.
We have a formalized risk assessment process in place to assess the impact of any new initiative being done in the company--for example, with regard to opening new routes or having new destinations.
As far as training is concerned, we have taken, in each different group, a formal way of explaining the concept of SMS and especially focusing on how to report events and how the analysis and investigation process internally is conducted.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
So how is it certified and where's the accountability in the system?
10 a.m.
Capt Jacques Mignault
The accountability is at all levels of the corporation. We make every single employee responsible in terms of their duty to report.
As the manager of the safety system, I'm not accountable for the safety; every senior manager, the ops manager, the maintenance manager, and up to the CEO are accountable for the safety--
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Okay. Thank you. I have to move along too.
How is information gathered, then, and how is that information sent on to Transport Canada? How does Transport Canada monitor you? Are there performance-based measures?
10 a.m.
Capt Michel Chiasson
Databases are created within the corporations. All of our corporations have databases. All reports go into that and are filed in different areas.
Transport Canada can come in at any time and ask to see the reports. In fact, they do quite often. They will come in on ad hoc basis. If they've heard about a report or want to see a report, they'll come in and look at it.
We have trained and continue to train employees, because part of.... You ask about accountability. As an operations manager, I had to demonstrate to Transport Canada when they came to do audits how an employee knew how to file a report: where they would find it on a corporation's website and how were reports filed. They then did spot interviews with pilots, flight attendants, and different employees, asking them if they understood the SMS process and if they knew how to file a report, and if they didn't know how to file a report, who would they ask?
All of this was double-checked. As the process went through in training, it has become more extensive. But that's where the accountability lies, and we continue to have spot checks.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you. I think I have only one minute left.
Mr. Barone, you mentioned you were disappointed that the minister repatriated the oversight and certification of the commercial operators. Why did he feel it was necessary to do this specifically? It seems like a very drastic step, so tell us why this happened.
10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Business Aviation Association
I can't tell you why it happened, because the minister made his decision based on advice and circumstances and the minister has a right under the Aeronautics Act to--
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Granted, but there has to be more to it than circumstances. There had to be concrete specific reasons why it happened. So what were they?
10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Business Aviation Association
I can't speak to that. I was not privy to the minister's decision-making process when he made his decision.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
We talked about there being 400 companies, 14 private auditors, and 3 staff. In the best of all possible worlds, what's the right number when it comes to inspectors and auditors?
10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Business Aviation Association
I would be speculating to tell you what the right number is. We know that we've had a system that's been working, and in our view, we've had oversight all along.
So as for the right number, now that it goes back to Transport Canada, that's for their own organizational requirements and design of the resource requirements to do that mandate.
