Evidence of meeting #31 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aveos.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
I couldn't comment on something like that at this time.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay.
The bottom line, I guess, and what I'm getting to here, is that things did go sideways and things went wrong. I think what we ought to do, though, is look to the future, go forward, and make sure that we get protection here, that we get jobs for these workers, and that we can get these facilities back up and going as soon as possible. I was very happy to hear of Air Canada's desire to also work in that vein to make sure that is going to happen.
I guess that's the one thing I want to get back to a little. It's Mr. Poilievre's questioning. You're asking us to do something, and I think we are happy to try to do something here to help this go forward. It would be helpful for us, though, if we had some concrete responses from you as to, you know.... Are there ways you see that we can work together with you to bring a solution to this?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
I think what we'd like to see is to get all the parties together at some point to sit down and talk about those solutions. I mean, it's—
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Well, the government, Air Canada, the unions.... If there are investors out there that are looking to invest in the company, or if there's someone who can operate it, then it should be all of us together working to try to make sure that it happens.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
And you are pursuing, from some of the reading I've done, opportunities for some possible investors?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Yes.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
You're getting a good response on that at this point in time?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
It's early in the discussions, so at this point I can't say a whole lot about it.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Right. But you feel good about it, the potential...?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Well, at this point I'm not feeling real good about anything, because I still have so many people out of work—
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
—so it's a tough position.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay.
I also have one question regarding the announcement of the 2,600 jobs and the loss of them. In regard to those workers who have been trained and have those technical skills, from your conversations with them, is it their desire to start up again, to have a fresh beginning, and to have an opportunity to work in the centres and in the positions they're in?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Sure. The vast majority of them would like to do that.
As we talked about earlier, a decade of things being totally negative and a real trying time have definitely caused some people to start looking for other employment, which is one of our fears. If we don't do something quickly with this and move on, we will lose the people who have that technology and training, because they will have to move on to something else.
But to your question, yes, I think the majority of the people would be willing. It has been their life. It is what they've trained for and what they would like to continue doing.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Okay, but you're getting the sense that they're already finding other opportunities, then?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
They have no choice, because they're not getting money from anywhere. They've obviously had to start looking for places for any type of work to pay their bills and keep their kids fed and clothed.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you.
Before I recognize Ms. Chow, what's the average age of people in your organization? Are they all under 40? Over 40?
9:20 a.m.
President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Mississauga, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
The Aveos group would probably be under 40 as a whole.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
It was only in January 2011 that the Canadian Industrial Relations Board recognized Aveos as a separate legal entity from Air Canada. All the workers came from Air Canada. Air Canada started branding in 2000 its maintenance, repair, and overhaul operations as a separate entity, and in 2004 transformed it into a dependent, legal entity. Then in 2007 they sold it off. In 2008 the new entity was rebranded as Aveos. So technically, the workers really belong to Air Canada.
I have a concrete proposal. I don't know whether you agree with it or not. Do you think the Government of Canada should tighten the Air Canada Public Participation Act to mandate Air Canada to rehire the 2,600 heavy-maintenance workers and also prevent Air Canada from sending jobs outside Canada? There's a debate right now whether the participation act is worth the paper it's written on.
Now, Chuck Strahl and all the various ministers, when they came in front of the committee and even in the House of Commons on March 2, 2011.... In answering the question of Thomas Mulcair, Minister of Transport Chuck Strahl said there would not be any job losses--Air Canada says it's going to maintain its overhaul centres in Winnipeg, Mississauga, and Montreal, so no job losses, a good thing, etc. So they promised the workers over and over again that the law was going to protect them. And they are now saying that the law doesn't protect them. Well, you can't have it both ways.
For ten years you said the law protected them, and now you say that it doesn't. Then should the law be amended to make sure that the workers get rehired by Air Canada and also prevent Air Canada from sending jobs outside, to the U.S.? Mr. Rovinescu sat at the seat over there where Mr. Atkinson is sitting, and I asked him precisely, and my colleagues also asked him, are you planning on sending some jobs to the U.S.? There was some dancing around; he said he didn't know, they may have to. We asked, how many? He wasn't sure.
I can just see it coming. A lot of the jobs that are highly trained, good-paying jobs are going to go down to the States.
Is that what you're asking the government to do? It wasn't clear in some of your answers. If the law doesn't protect you right now, change the law—is that what you're asking for?
Whoever wants to answer the question, whether it's Mr. Erlichman or Mr. Atkinson or Mr. Poirier....
9:25 a.m.
General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Montréal, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Ms. Chow, you hit the nail on the head. Minister Flaherty said—not all the way back in 1988 but just last year—that Air Canada was complying with the act because Aveos was a subsidiary. Aveos was using Air Canada's facilities, but now it is no longer doing so. We are not going all the way back to 1988 but to about a year ago.
Mr. Pigeon, who provided the government with a legal opinion, said that we did not know. Yes, it is an overhaul centre, but Mr. Pigeon said in 2006, not in 2004, that Air Canada Technical Services, which had become a body separate from Air Canada, had to comply with the act. I can read to you what he said, if you like. I will give you a copy later.
9:25 a.m.
General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Montréal, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
The government has a responsibility. Whether it be Aveos, Lufthansa Technik or any other company, Air Canada must guarantee the contracts. No investor is going to get involved if Air Canada does not guarantee that the contracts will go to these cities. It is in the spirit of the Act. The work must be done in these facilities.