Transport Committee on April 3rd, 2012

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Did Air Canada deliberately starve Aveos? There seems to be a dispute. Aveos said that you're not giving them the contracts for the work they have to do.

I understand that in 1988 Air Canada executives came in front of a House of Commons committee and said that its maintenance division was profitable. So it was making money. How do you run a company, which was making money when you received it, into the ground, at the end of the day?

Is it true that some of the contracts that should have been given to Aveos weren't given? That was one of the accusations. Was Air Canada deliberately trying to starve Aveos? Was that the case?

[Jean Poirier]

I will let my colleague from Winnipeg answer that question.

[Tony Didoshak, General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Winnipeg, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada]

We attended quarterly meetings with Air Canada and Aveos that dealt with the scheduling of heavy maintenance programs throughout the year, in all three locations. During these meetings, we would set a Gantt chart, as it was called, which was the heavy maintenance schedule for the entire year. It would go from January to January, showing any gaps in the summer, because Air Canada would fly the aircraft in the summer.

As we proceeded through the beginning of this year, we noticed aircraft being changed and our Gantt chart meetings being more frequent. The more we showed up for meetings, the fewer aircraft showed up. I don't know what happened business-wise between Air Canada and Aveos, but I can tell you, from a scheduling point of view, that aircraft started to be removed from the Gantt charts, which meant that our workers, our employees, our members, had no work to do. Our members had no ability to do any aircraft, and the white space, as we called it, which was where no aircraft were available within the locations, started to grow. This led to the subsequent CCAA application of Aveos.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. I have to interrupt there.

Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this morning. I will perhaps direct my remarks to Mr. Poirier and Mr. Brosseau.

On this side of the government, we are very aware of the loss of 2,600 jobs. We know that they are high level positions—if I am mistaken, please stop me and I will make any necessary corrections. We know that it is engineers and specialized workers.

I believe that you participated in a job fair this weekend to help some people.

[Jean Poirier]

I would just like to clarify that we did not organize the job fair. I believe it was organized by former Aveos managers. We are not the ones who organized it, and that is fine.

[Gilles Brosseau]

We also organized a job fair with the CAMAQ, which is coming up. The Centre d'adaptation de la main-d'oeuvre aérospatiale du Québec is going to organize a job fair with employers in need for our members who are not working. It is not to address the topic that we are talking about this morning.

We have people who are out on the streets who are not working. These people have families. It will take years for them to recover. This hinders future generations. No one will want to go to school to work in the aerospace industry. We must do something.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

We are willing to participate in any initiatives to help these workers. I agree with you.

We are talking about 2,600 workers in the aerospace repair industry. What percentage of all employees in this same industry do these 2,600 workers represent?

[Gilles Brosseau]

I can talk about Montreal, but I do not know about the other cities.

We know that Montreal is Canada's aerospace capital. With the closure of Aveos, a large part of that disappeared. We spoke briefly with the people at Aéro Montréal, which is Quebec's largest aerospace cluster. They too are feeling the effects of this loss.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

It is a lot of workers.

[Gilles Brosseau]

This affects many workers, as well as the qualification of potential workers and the future. The aerospace industry is one of Canada's high tech industries. We are good at this work and we have professionals in the field. We are—

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

We will come back to that. It is fine. We are aware of that.

[Gilles Brosseau]

You understand what I am trying to say.

[Jean Poirier]

I would like to clarify one thing, Mr. Brosseau. You are talking about aerospace trades, but there is a difference between a certified technician who gets a licence from Transport Canada to fly an airplane—

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Okay. That is great.

[Jean Poirier]

—and someone who builds an airplane at Bombardier, for example.

With regard to the centralization of these qualified technicians, the 2,400 technicians that are leaving today represent the disappearance of perhaps 75% of all these occupations.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

We understand that it is a large part of the market. However, the work itself has not disappeared. It is Aveos that has disappeared. We are all aware of that.

[Jean Poirier]

In my opinion, the work has disappeared. I have planes that have gone to Rome, to New York, to TIMCO Aviation Services. I have others that are in Singapore and El Salvador.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Poirier, but last week, a representative from Air Canada told us the opposite. He said that jobs would be kept in Canadian companies.

[Jean Poirier]

They are American facilities. I saw the same meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

There are smaller companies. A new company could meet the demand, but can other Canadian suppliers replace Aveos?

[Jean Poirier]

I think that, with your help, there would be a way to talk to the people at Air Canada and to let them know that the companies have the tools and facilities. They may need a partner to survive. Everyone is talking about Lufthansa but it could be another company. Air Canada could perhaps guarantee that these jobs will be kept in these facilities with the help of a partner. The aircraft will be repaired and there will be guaranteed contracts. You could take the initiative to force Air Canada not to take the planes away from these cities.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Would it be better for the 2,600 workers to be transferred to one company or to three or four separate companies, which would be more competitive for Air Canada?

In your opinion, what would be the best business model for the future?

[Jean Poirier]

Let us consider the maintenance, repair and overhaul centres in the world. Lufthansa Technik is a German company that is a subsidiary of Lufthansa. Right now, Air France does all its own maintenance. Air Canada's Boeing 777 engines are sent to Air France, where the three services are centralized: the company takes care of engines, the aircraft and their components. When you start separating these things, problems arise.

When a plane is brought to a hangar for a 21-day inspection, the engine is removed. The engine must be checked in a hangar reserved for that purpose, whereas some engine components are sent elsewhere.

When we talk about an overhaul centre, we are talking about three things: an engine maintenance centre, a components maintenance centre and a hangar. If the decision is made to take a piecemeal approach, suppliers will start to fight with each other. For example, the garage is located in a certain place but it costs too much for the engine and so the decision is made to send the engine to China to save money, but this causes the facilities in the original location to close. It all needs to be centralized.

What we want right now is to keep the jobs. We want to get people back to work. There is a federal law in this regard. Mr. Jeanniot, who was the president of Air Canada, very clearly explained that the overhaul centres are made up of engine maintenance centres, components maintenance centres and hangars. The tools are there. Everything is in place. All that needs to be done is to call the employees back to work. We are open to the idea of having another supplier help Air Canada do it but, for that to happen, we will need your help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. I have to stop you there.

Ms. Morin.