Transport Committee on Nov. 18th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Mai, that's actually two questions, so let the minister respond to them, please.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We had another meeting last Friday. Since the beginning of the new bridge on the St. Lawrence project, 60 meetings have been held between Transport Canada and Government of Quebec representatives. Another 50 meeting have been held with municipal representatives and 50 meetings with various partners.

In your second question, you say that this is a first contract, but ARUP was hired to respond to a contract that had already been awarded to Buckland & Taylor. Your statement contains many wrong elements. It is totally wrong to say that this is a first contract, since $380 billion has been invested. So contracts had to be awarded at some point.

We want to shorten the timeframes. The Buckland & Taylor report includes certain requests. Additional amounts of $400 million to $500 million will have to be invested to maintain the current bridge until the new bridge is ready. I hope that you will vote in favour of this measure, this time. A number of contracts have been awarded, and ARUP was hired because the firm was already involved in the file, as it was a stakeholder in the business plan following its engagement with PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

That is one of our concerns.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

This firm has done work. It is established around the world and has a great deal of experience in bridge building. Everything was done in compliance with the rules of Public Works and Government Services Canada. We will continue to ensure that each step is followed. Public safety is of the utmost importance to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Toet, you can have one question.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister for being with us. It's always great to have you.

With regard to the supplementary estimates, I think it's very important to note that our government has been focused on deficit reduction. We want to bring our deficit under control and make sure we have a zero deficit going forward. Notwithstanding that, maybe you can confirm to me that we're seeing a net increase in the Infrastructure Canada supplementary estimates (B). I think that's a really good news story. It's showing Canadians we are very much focused on infrastructure renewal.

In your introductory remarks you mentioned a lowering of the age of infrastructure from 17 to 14.4 years, outstripping the average age from 1961 to 2011, so we're seeing a great gain there.

I wonder whether you could confirm that is indeed the case, that we are seeing a net increase.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's the case, and given the fact that we will continue to support it, I'm sure the numbers will be better some years from now. That's exactly what we have done. We will balance the budget and we will continue to support municipalities, provinces, and territories in this renewal. In the end, infrastructure is money, it's jobs, and it's possible to grow the economy because this infrastructure brings more investment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Minister.

I'll allow one minute if you have any additional comments for the committee. The time is yours, if you want it.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have only to tell you that we want to continue to work with your committee; the Canadian people expect us to do good things for them. We did with the infrastructure plan, and that's what we will continue to do.

We really took that seriously, Mr. Chair. I was appointed to the Department of Transport in May 2011. We announced the building of a new bridge on the St. Lawrence 140 days later. We are making an effort to turn that new bridge into an economic tool. Had that decision been politically motivated, we might have announced it during the 2011 electoral campaign, but that's not what we did.

I hope you will give us credit for getting the work done, making sure that the bridge is safe, installing sensors and monitoring the situation professionally. I hope that you will not frighten Canadians in order to win votes. We are doing a good job of ensuring public safety.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thanks again, Mr. Minister, and thanks as well to Ms. Dazé, Ms. Rascanin, and Mr. Lévesque for being here.

We are going to suspend for a couple of minutes to allow Minister Lebel to leave the table and Minister Raitt to come.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We'll call our meeting back to order.

Welcome, Minister Raitt. Thanks very much for coming.

Mr. Lévesque, Ms. Borges, and Mr. Morency, thanks to all of you.

With no further ado, I'll turn it over to you, Minister.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, thank you very much for inviting me today to meet with you and your committee members. I'm looking forward to your counsel and support as committee members as I deliver my duties in my new portfolio.

It is the first time that I am before you as the Minister of Transport today. I'm really happy to be here to speak to our department's supplementary estimates (B). We are seeking $12.9 million in new funding for Transport Canada. My officials and I will be happy to go into detail on that matter later, explaining the reasons for this request and outlining how the tax dollars will be put to work for the benefit of Canadians.

But while I've come to talk about budget matters, my real mission today is to reinforce the necessity of and my personal commitment to, and of course our government's unwavering commitment to, safe transportation in the country. A good example of our commitment to this is Bill C-3, which is called the Safeguarding Canada's Seas and Skies Act, tabled in Parliament last month as part of our government's comprehensive measures to establish a world-class tanker safety system here in Canada. As a trading nation, Mr. Chair, Canada depends heavily on marine shipping for economic growth, for jobs and long-term prosperity. The safe navigation of oil tankers is a critical element in our efforts to increase trade, because that generates jobs and that generates growth and long-term prosperity for all Canadians. The Safeguarding Canada's Seas and Skies Act reinforces this commitment to protecting Canada's coast and shores by ensuring the safe and reliable transport of Canada's natural resources. Bill C-3 amends existing acts and introduces one new piece of legislation.

The proposed amendments to the Marine Liability Act will actually help fill a critical gap in the current liability and compensation regime. They would implement into Canadian law a new international convention that covers incidents involving the release of hazardous and noxious substances from ships. This can include substances like chemicals, refined oil products, liquefied natural gas—those things that are carried in bulk or in containers in the marine transport system. The convention would make shipowners strictly liable for damages, including any impacts of pollution incidents, and would create a new international compensation fund. The total compensation would be up to approximately $400 million for any single incident. Canada has actually been instrumental in the development of this convention at the International Maritime Organization.

Related changes to the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, would strengthen the current requirements for spill prevention and preparedness at oil handling facilities. They would also increase Transport Canada's oversight and enforcement capacity, as well as enhance Canada's response to oil spill incidents. Among other things, the changes would extend the use of administrative monetary penalties for pollution prevention and response. This is an additional enforcement and compliance tool that actually allows marine inspectors, who are the ones on the front lines, to issue fines in cases where the Canada Shipping Act is violated.

Mr. Chair, I can assure you that safe navigation of oil tankers is our priority. Preventing spills through strict regulation and enforcement and being prepared for spills will ensure that we are on the right path. We've implemented new safety measures for pipelines and tankers and tough new rules to punish polluters. I would remind committee members that last March our government announced that we are boosting the number of inspections of all foreign tankers. We're increasing the funding for the national aerial surveillance program to keep a watchful eye on tankers moving through Canadian waters. We've also expanded scientific research on non-conventional petroleum products. We've also ensured that a system of aids to navigation be installed and maintained. These are buoys, lights, markers—devices that actually warn of obstructions and mark the location of the preferred shipping routes.

Additionally, Mr. Chair, our government announced the creation of a tanker safety expert panel to review Canada's current tanker safety system. The panel met with more than 70 stakeholders to discuss tanker safety, and I thank the committee for all its work. Pursuant to its mandate, which was announced in March, I have received the report as of November 15 and officials are reviewing it. When the report has been translated into both official languages, we will release it publicly.

Since I became minister in July, I have personally met with first nations and municipalities as well to discuss our government's actions on tanker safety.

If you take all of these together, with meetings and measures we will help to make oil tanker passage safe, environmentally responsible, and, more importantly, world class.

Mr. Chair, if I may, the other issue I want to touch on before taking questions from the committee is the action we've taken on the transportation of dangerous goods and rail safety. We're going to take a similar approach to that of world-class tanker safety initiatives on the marine side, developing and focusing on prevention, response, and liability. As the tragedy in Lac-Mégantic and other recent derailments have made clear, there is no higher priority than ensuring the safety of Canadian citizens, and that's a responsibility I know we in this room all take very seriously.

In the immediate aftermath of Lac-Mégantic, I issued an emergency directive to railway companies under the Railway Safety Act, with six mandatory actions. More importantly, we also issued a ministerial order obligating rail companies to develop rules that comply with these requirements on a permanent basis. As well, I directed Transport Canada officials to accelerate the development and implementation of regulations that reflect our recent amendments to the Railway Safety Act. But, Mr. Chair, we're not stopping there. We recognize and we know that the growth in the volume of dangerous goods moving by rail across the country shows that it's imperative that we strengthen the safety culture in Canada's rail transportation system. And that's what we pledged to do in the Speech from the Throne. We're going to wait for the results of the investigation into Lac-Mégantic and the other incidents, but we are taking targeted action to further increase the safety of the transportation of dangerous goods.

In October I announced a protective direction requiring parties importing crude oil or offering it for transport to have conducted, or have to conduct, classification testing of crude oil. They need to make these test results available to Transport Canada upon request, and they have to update their safety data sheets and immediately provide them to the department's Canadian Transport Emergency Centre.

The Speech from the Throne also signalled that we will require shippers and railway companies to carry additional insurance. As efforts to clean up and rebuild Lac-Mégantic demonstrate, railway companies and shippers have to be capable of bearing the costs of their accidents. This is why the government will require shippers and railways to carry sufficient insurance so they can be held accountable.

Last month I met with the Advisory Council on Railway Safety to underscore the importance of industry and government working together to ensure a safe rail transportation system. In a few days I'll also be meeting with the Transportation of Dangerous Goods General Policy Advisory Council, seeking its input into actions that we can take to improve public safety when dangerous goods are being transported.

As I heard at the September meeting of the Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation, municipal and provincial governments are calling for even stronger rail safety measures. They also want improved information sharing with communities and local first responders, and we're examining whether additional steps can be taken to address their concerns right now.

But today, Mr. Chairman, I am turning to your committee and I'm looking for help. I'm hoping I can count on this committee to undertake a safety review of Canada's transportation system. I'm most interested in the transportation of dangerous goods, or TDG for short, in all major parts of Canada's transportation system. It doesn't matter whether commodities are being moved on the ground, in the air, or on the high seas; we want to make sure that these things are moved safely.

I welcome the advice of your members about what more we should be doing, whether issuing regular progress reports on our targeted actions, strengthening regulations, or imposing stricter penalties for failure to meet high safety standards. Specifically, I'm seeking answers to the following question: what additional measures could be taken to strengthen the transportation of dangerous goods safety across all modes of transportation?

Mr. Chair, I'd also welcome your committee's advice regarding stronger safety management systems across all transportation modes. Our government is committed to safe and secure transportation, and a safe and secure transportation system is vital to the well-being of our citizens. It's equally essential to ensuring the success and continued growth of these crucial sectors of the Canadian economy.

Over the past decade, Transport Canada has introduced safety management systems precisely to advance these goals. I would like your members to examine the progress being made by answering the following questions: What is the current state of SMS implementation in all modes of transportation? Has the implementation of SMS improved the safety of our transportation regime? As well, what additional measures could be taken to increase the adoption and improve the integration of SMS in air, marine, and rail transportation?

I do recommend that to answer these questions fully you meet with industry and government stakeholders to get their perspectives and their advice. I encourage you to look at all sides of the issue and to reassure Canadians that their health and safety is of utmost importance.

I would hope that your study could provide an interim report to me by the summer of 2014.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, each of these targeted actions, coupled with the legislative improvements I have highlighted, demonstrate that our government recognizes the importance of a safe and a responsible transportation system. We know that it's crucial to the welfare of citizens and communities across the country and to Canada's economic well-being, and we're committed to ensuring that all responsible parties understand and abide by their responsibilities for the transportation of dangerous goods at every step in the process, from origin to destination and every point in between.

The areas I've outlined today underscore our government's commitment to protecting the public while supporting long-term economic growth, jobs, and prosperity. They also reinforce the necessity of adequate funding to advance this ambitious agenda, the topic of today's discussions.

I welcome your questions or comments about any aspect of my presentation. Thank you very much for your attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thanks very much, Minister.

I just want to point out that both the minister and I were in Lac-Mégantic this summer, just days after the minister was appointed to her new role. I think she would agree with me, based on her comments, that Lac-Mégantic is something we sure never want to happen again, if it's at all avoidable. It was a real tragedy, but to see it with our own eyes....

With no further ado, I will turn it over to Ms. Chow for seven minutes. I understand you're splitting your time with Mr. Rousseau.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I really thank you for the offer to study rail safety and the SMS system. I've been talking about it since 2006. It was formerly in Bill C-7 and then in Bill C-6, etc., and then in the transportation of dangerous goods.

In fact, I have a motion that is ready to be moved by the end of this meeting, because we need to deal with the agenda of this committee. I will certainly take up your offer to do so.

I have two or three very specific questions. I note that four years ago there was one federal inspector for every 14 trainloads of oil, and now there is one inspector for every 4,000 tankloads of this dangerous cargo. With only 35 rail inspectors, how are they possibly able to have the time and the resources to do proper inspections?

Given that backdrop, why is it that the rail safety budget is now being cut by 19%?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I'll turn to the deputy on the budget question.

Thank you very much for your acceptance on the report. I think it would be a great exercise in terms of getting views on the table on all aspects. The committee can do some excellent work there if it chooses to do so.

In terms of the inspectors, the system of safety is more than just inspectors. I concur that what we have seen in the past 18 months are increased numbers in the shipping of dangerous goods in terms of oil via rail. That is a function of the fact that the oil has to make it to market and it's going through the rail system.

With respect to our system of safety, we have safety management systems, which I've asked you to take a look at. That really does make sure that the culture adopted in the rail companies is one of safety and that it's in everything—it's in their people, it's in their manuals, it's in their procedures—and we have seen a decrease in the number of accidents as a result.

At Transport Canada we have rules and regulations that we've had for a number of years, which we expect to be followed. When they're not followed, they are enforced. We have inspectors who do their work across the country in both the transportation of dangerous goods and with the Railway Safety Act itself. I believe we have 35 inspectors for the transportation of dangerous goods, and we have about 100 inspectors on railway safety.

But it's a system that works from within. It is a layering effect: it's the safety management system, it's sound regulation, and it's having inspectors there as well.

Perhaps there'll be a discussion at the committee with respect to the need for inspectors versus having enforcement in other ways, shapes, or forms, so I look forward to the results from the committee.

In terms of the budget with respect to rail safety, I defer to the deputy on that.

[Louis Lévesque]

There are no reductions in the budgets allocated to inspections of rail safety. As the minister mentioned, we have 100 rail inspectors—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I'm not talking about the inspectors. I mean the entire rail safety budget has been cut by 19%. Right?

[Louis Lévesque]

In terms of—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Am I correct in that?

[Louis Lévesque]

There have been no cuts to the budgets affecting inspection and rail safety.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I'm not talking about inspection. I'm sorry.

There were two separate questions. One was about the inspectors; the other was that the rail safety budget has been cut by 19%. Am I correct?

[Louis Lévesque]

I'm not sure what number you're referring to. I know for a fact that there have been no cuts to the budget allocated to rail safety inspectors.

I also know—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Chair, since I don't have much time—

[Louis Lévesque]

—that the actual departmental spending in relation to its appropriation varies from year to year. But there have been no cuts to the budgets that have been affecting—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That wasn't my question. I'll move on then.