Evidence of meeting #12 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jim Quick  President and Chief Executive Officer, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
Ronnie Di Bartolo  President and Chief Executive Officer, Premier Aviation Overhaul Center
Yves-Thomas Dorval  President and Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Employers Council
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Bartholomew Chaplin
Jean-Pierre Bastien  Vice-President, Operations, Premier Aviation Québec Inc., Premier Aviation
Kevin Rebeck  President, Manitoba Federation of Labour
Heather Stefanson  Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Quebec Employers Council

Yves-Thomas Dorval

I will answer the question in French.

Perhaps this is due to an interpretation problem, but I did not say that this would necessarily stimulate tourism. I said that for the tourism industry and everything else, the presence of a carrier of the size of Air Canada is crucial in Canada. In addition the fact of having competitive conditions will allow this carrier to continue to offer flights to those who visit Canada as well as to those who go abroad. For a carrier to be able to offer a vast range of destinations, it must be able to have maximum flexibility in all of its operations, including its maintenance costs.

A company that is weakened by a lack of flexibility or by conditions that do not allow it to be competitive will eventually offer fewer destinations. It will have to reduce their number. The fact that its portfolio is reduced will have an impact on tourism. We are after all talking about an airline.

In conclusion I would say that competitive capacity is at the core of this bill. It is what ensures the durability of a company like Air Canada. Generally speaking, that is also true of the aerospace industry.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey. I'm sorry, but I have to cut you off. It is 4:30, and we have other panels coming forward.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Chair, I haven't even asked a question yet.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

It's 4:30, and we have the Manitoba Federation of Labour and the Government of Manitoba coming before us. My apologies. That's why I was trying to be tight with the time.

Gentlemen, thanks very much to all of you. We very much appreciate your contribution.

I will suspend the meeting for a minute.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I call the meeting back to order.

By video conference, we have with us Kevin Rebeck, president of the Manitoba Federation of Labour, and the Honourable Heather Stefanson, deputy premier of the Government of Manitoba.

Thanks very much to both of you for speaking to the committee today. We very much appreciate your time and your contribution.

Mr. Rebeck, would you like to start?

4:30 p.m.

Kevin Rebeck President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Sure, I'd be pleased to.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the standing committee about Bill C-10, an act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act.

Historically, Air Canada has been a very significant employer and generator of economic activity in Winnipeg and in Manitoba more broadly.

In recent years, however, we have felt the serious adverse effects of Air Canada's scaling back its operations and moving and eliminating a large number of jobs from our city. Air Canada has cut flight attendants, pilots, finance positions, and call centre jobs from Winnipeg. Of course, most recently we've felt the huge loss of 400 high-quality jobs following the 2012 closure of the Aveos aircraft maintenance operation in Winnipeg, including some 350 IAMAW members. All told, Air Canada's total employment in Manitoba has dropped from nearly 2,400 in 2002 to less than 800 today, a reduction of about two-thirds.

The bill under consideration today deals most directly with overhaul and maintenance jobs and specifically proposes to relax existing requirements on Air Canada to maintain jobs, requirements that the corporation has disregarded and failed to honour.

The term “relaxed requirements” really doesn't accurately capture what this bill proposes to do. The amendments before you obliterate Air Canada's obligations to keep good jobs in Winnipeg, rendering them toothless and unenforceable.

The elimination of heavy maintenance operations in Winnipeg, which occurred with the collapse of Aveos, is in direct violation of the existing 1988 Air Canada Public Participation Act, which explicitly mandates Air Canada to maintain an operational overhaul centre in Winnipeg as well as in Montreal and Mississauga. We know Air Canada's actions violate the current act because the act is clear, precise, and specific. We also know this to be true because the Quebec Superior Court has told us so. In response to a suit filed by Quebec in April 2012 and later joined by Manitoba, the Quebec Superior Court ruled that Air Canada was in contravention of the act because it had not maintained required heavy maintenance operations. When Air Canada appealed this ruling, the Quebec Appeals Court ruled against the corporation.

It's been disappointing that the Government of Manitoba has thus far refused to enforce the legislation. This has been even more difficult to rationalize since the Quebec court ruling against Air Canada. This act, which privatized Air Canada, intentionally and specifically included requirements to ensure the maintenance of high-skilled, high-tech, good-paying jobs in Winnipeg and other Canadian centres. This didn't happen by accident. It happened in response to concerns raised by labour, impacted communities, and local and provincial governments at the time about the potential and likelihood of job loss, concerns which have proven to be right on the mark. The federal government of the day told us not to worry. Canada said jobs would be preserved and maybe even grow.

Similar concerns were raised again after the Air Canada-Canadian Airlines merger and after the spinoff of what would become to be known as Aveos. Again we were told there was nothing to worry about because the act guaranteed the jobs would be maintained, but that hasn't happened. The closure of Aveos has cost our community 400 good jobs, and Canada has failed to hold Air Canada to account and enforce the law. Instead, the federal government seems to have entered into secret negotiations with Air Canada, resulting in Bill C-10, which removes all substantive requirements for Air Canada to do its work in Winnipeg and other parts of Canada.

Section 2 of the act allows Air Canada to change the type or volume of any of its maintenance work and change the level of employment in these activities. This amounts to a total and complete gutting of the current job and operational requirements of the act. Now Air Canada tells us that they are working to establish a so-called centre of excellence in Winnipeg. In mid-March of this year, the corporation announced that it had concluded a deal with Manitoba, a deal that is said to take the form of an MOU, which is supposed to create about 150 jobs in Winnipeg through the establishment of three Air Canada supplier operations. However, few details and few specifics are known about the deal, as the MOU has been kept secret and is not publicly available. I should say that no mention was ever made about legislative changes as part of the announced deal, so we're left with few answers and many questions.

First, we don't know if Air Canada is truly obliged to create 150 jobs or has just agreed to try its best. Is that a firm number? Are they job guarantees?

Second, how long must they maintain the jobs? Could they be cut or eliminated in a year or two or three? What does it say about timelines and permanency?

Third, we understand from informal reports that Air Canada has been given until the end of June to live up to whatever obligations they agreed to in their MOU. Can the federal government confirm this time frame? If that is indeed the case, then why is the federal government proposing to change the legislation now before it can verify that Air Canada is actually going to follow through?

Why is Canada rushing to relieve Air Canada of its existing obligations, obligations that the corporation has refused to live up to for years, before we even know whether Air Canada is prepared to honour its new, secret pledges?

These are questions that Manitobans deserve answers to. On behalf of the Manitoba Federation of Labour, I urge this committee to reject this bill and to recommend to government that the existing Air Canada Public Participation Act be honoured and enforced.

Thank you.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Rebeck.

Deputy Premier Stefanson, would you like to go ahead, please? Thank you for taking the time to be here with us.

4:35 p.m.

Heather Stefanson Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

I'm pleased to be here today to speak on Bill C-10, the amendments to the Air Canada Public Participation Act.

Manitoba is home to a world-class aerospace industry. It is the largest in western Canada, with approximately 5,400 individuals employed directly, and many more indirectly in related sectors of our economy. Our firms are diverse and on the cutting edge of technology and innovation. The outlook for the Manitoba aerospace sector is positive.

Nonetheless, the global supply chain is extremely competitive, and Manitoba companies face severe competition from lower-cost jurisdictions. The loss of high-quality skilled jobs that resulted from the closure of Aveos in 2012 is still very much felt in our province. It is healthy for our country to maintain a robust and competitive aerospace industry outside of eastern Canada. As a new government, we need to be sure that Manitoba will be given the consideration it is due if changes to the Air Canada Public Participation Act are being sought.

There are significant implications to moving forward with Bill C-10. It is not appropriate to rush through without substantial dialogue and consideration. Actions taken by federal governments can have an enormous impact on the sustainability of Manitoba's aerospace sector. One of the most notorious was the CF-18 contracts. These types of conflicts serve no one's interests, and can be avoided through proactive participation.

Our government has been engaged with our partners in the federal government and Air Canada, as well as local stakeholders, regarding the implications of Bill C-10.

In February 2016 the previous government wrote Minister Garneau to request that amendments to the Air Canada Public Participation Act be limited to expanding the geographical scope of Air Canada's commitments within Manitoba. The proposed amendments go significantly further than the geographical scope. The spirit and original intent of the legislation was to ensure that skilled heavy maintenance work remained in Manitoba. While some flexibility can be appropriate, the proposed amendments virtually eliminate any obligation for the company to maintain high-quality skilled heavy maintenance jobs in our province. This is contrary to the interests of Manitobans.

The aviation industry has evolved substantially since the privatization of Air Canada and the introduction of the Air Canada Public Participation Act. Competitiveness is an integral part of economic growth. We embrace change, but it is the responsibility of our new government to ensure that Manitoba's aerospace industry emerges strengthened, not weakened, as a global competitor.

Manitoba's interests are clear: economic growth, high-quality jobs, and a strong and competitive aerospace industry. The federal government's approach to Bill C-10, simply put, jumps the gun. Bill C-10 is being rushed through the process before the necessary specific investments and binding commitments by the federal government and Air Canada have been secured.

As a direct result, the Government of Manitoba must oppose Bill C-10. Our province will continue to do so until such time as specific commitments have been made to reassure Manitobans that changes to the Air Canada Public Participation Act and related accompanying investments in job creation will provide a net benefit to the Manitoba economy.

This concludes my statement to the committee. I thank members for listening today.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Ms. Stefanson.

Congratulations on your recent success, by the way.

4:40 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

Thank you very much.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

You're welcome.

Ms. Watts, you have six minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you very much.

I appreciate both of you being here.

We have heard over and over again that the Government of Manitoba has come to an agreement. From what I'm hearing right now, there is no agreement in place, and you oppose Bill C-10. I'm glad you clarified that.

Just previously, we had the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada and Premier Aviation here. Both were very supportive of Bill C-10 in terms of the C Series maintenance opportunities in the centre of excellence in Winnipeg.

Can you comment on that?

4:40 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

Thank you very much, and I thank the member for the question.

Again, there are certain aspects of this bill that we are not opposed to. In fact, we're in favour of a modernization of the act. As well, we're in favour of an expansion to the geographical scope. What we take issue with specifically, however, is that we believe the amendments allow for too much flexibility in Air Canada's ability to pull jobs out of Manitoba. We as a government want to ensure that there is a net gain with respect to jobs and our economy here in Manitoba.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Do you think the Air Canada Public Participation Act should be changed before the Air Canada v. Attorney General of Quebec lawsuit has been concluded?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

I think the important thing here is that there are aspects of the bill that we do support with respect to modernization. I think it's a little bit of putting the cart before the horse when it comes to the area that specifically relates to Manitoba, and that is job security here in our province. I think until the government and Air Canada come up with some sort of a solution through which there's a net gain to our province, we cannot support this bill as it is.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Okay. Has a memorandum of understanding between the federal government and the Manitoba government been signed?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

Yes. It was the previous government. As you know, there was recently an election in our province, and the previous government, as I understand it, did enter into a memorandum of understanding with Air Canada.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

What was the content of that? Are you aware of that?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

We're looking forward to further dialogue with Air Canada with respect to that memorandum of understanding.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

What was the content of it? Can you share that?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

At this point in time we're looking at clarifying the details of that memorandum of understanding.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Would it be possible for this committee to obtain a copy of the memorandum of understanding?

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

At this stage, because we are still looking at the details and clarifying the details, I would say that cannot be the case, because we're still in discussions with respect to that. I appreciate the question.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Fair enough.

How much time do I have?

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

You have two minutes.