Transport Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We will move now to Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to pull back a bit for the benefit of the people who might be either listening or watching—this is televised—and talk about the big picture on infrastructure. Back in the mid to late 2000s, the previous Conservative Government rolled out a fairly substantial infrastructure program, and it was in response to the recession. I think the issue there was to get people working and to use the opportunity to get some things built. The side effect was the changing of the environmental regulations, which of course had proven to be an impediment to the pipeline expansions, etc. Then when we came along, we had this $180-billion infrastructure program at a time when we were coming out of the recession, and in fact we're not even anywhere close to that now. That took a lot of people by surprise, but it seems to me that there are some really fundamental differences in approach, and the kinds of results that we're looking for in the program we have today versus the one that Mr. Harper's government had back 10 years ago.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Madam Chair, I totally agree with my colleague on that. I mean, we faced an era in which there was a decade of underinvestment in infrastructure. Anyone in that field will understand that you then need to invest exponentially. That's why we put together a historic plan of more than $180 billion to address issues that Canadians watching us would understand. When we're talking about public transit, for example, I think the people who live in urban areas in our country would understand that it was about time we made these historic investments to allow people greater fluidity.

In terms of the big picture, as I always tell my colleagues, infrastructure is key in our country. Modern, resilient green infrastructure will help us attract investment and talent. For me, when we invest in infrastructure, we invest in not only our current prosperity but future prosperity. In terms of our plan, we asked ourselves this: What is one of the biggest challenges we have to tackle as human beings? It's climate change, so when we're building infrastructure, people are watching us. We understand that we cannot do things today the way we did them in 1980. We need to build in a way that will be resilient but also green. Canadians expect this when we are investing in this.

I can give you the example of Saanich. I was in B.C. recently at the Commonwealth pool. They decided to change from fossil fuels to biomass. By doing so, they reduced their energy costs by 90%. That's the type of project we want in communities. You're improving lives and at the same time you're reducing your carbon footprint.

When I think about social infrastructure, as the member from Trois-Rivières was saying before, this is also about making sure.... You know, infrastructure means different things to different people. If you're in an urban area, you may think about a bridge or a road. If you are in a rural community, you may think about a community centre or broadband access. You may think about cellphone coverage. I come from a riding where about half the riding has no cellphone coverage and no Internet coverage.

Obviously, when you talk about infrastructure, it touches the lives of people. When we talk about rural and northern communities and the way we structure it, to the member's point, I can provide another example of why we have a stream that is very specific to rural and northern areas. When I was in Saskatchewan recently, people were telling me that if we gave them the funds to increase, for example, the length of the runway about 200 metres or 300 metres, they could land bigger planes, reduce greenhouse gas emissions with the fewer planes needed, and reduce the price of food by about 50% in northern communities.

That's why we have projects that are tailored to the needs of Canadians across the country.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

With respect to the Infrastructure Bank, I have, like some of my colleagues, a municipal background. I worked with the transportation authority in metro Vancouver.

Thank you, by the way, for the funding for our new SkyTrain extensions. We appreciate that very much. It will go right through my community, in fact.

The Infrastructure Bank represents something that I've seen happen before—public-private partnerships where the private sector comes in as another funding partner. To me, that has to alleviate the pressure, first of all, on municipal governments for their share, provincial governments for their share, and it makes the given funding from the federal government go further. Is that a fair assessment?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Totally. As I've said before, the Infrastructure Bank of Canada is there to do more for Canadians. I'm the former trade minister for Canada, and I can tell you that people in the world want to invest in Canada. Why? We have stability, predictability, rule of law and a very inclusive society that cherishes diversity. People want to invest in Canada to help us build the infrastructure that Canadians need.

Exactly as my colleague said, Madam Chair, that's why we created the Infrastructure Bank. It's just like in Australia, for example, where they created a vehicle to make sure they would have a pipeline of projects where they could crowd in the investment. By crowding in the investment, we can free capital to invest in the types of assets that governments need to invest in and that we know the private sectors will not invest in. It frees up capital to do more. The REM is a good example of where you're better to take a loan from the Infrastructure Bank to do that project and free up capital for us to invest in other projects—for example, in this case, in the province of Quebec under the allocation—where we don't want the private sector to invest.

This is really, truly another tool in our tool box. I'm not suggesting in front of members that this will solve every problem. What I'm saying to Canadians is that it's great to have another tool in our tool box. We're in 2018. Modern countries are looking at different ways to provide infrastructure. We know that in OECD countries there's a huge deficit in infrastructure. Every time we invest in infrastructure, we're giving ourselves the means of our dreams. We can attract better investment. We can attract talent. We know that we are facing labour shortages across Canada. We also know that people move to places where you have modern infrastructure, where you have quality of water, where you can have mobility, where you can have community centres, and where you can have green buildings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Champagne.

We move on to Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here this morning. On October 25, you had the opportunity to update the media on the Champlain Bridge situation. I would like to thank you for the transparency you are showing to Canadians about it.

Can you tell us about the significant steps forward with the work on the Champlain Bridge?

We know that some work cannot be done until the good weather returns. Do we have a timeline for the work that remains to be done until the bridge opens?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

First, Madam Chair, may I thank my colleague Mr. Iacono for that question.

Yes, I was in Montreal recently, in October, to inform the people of Montreal and Quebec about the Champlain Bridge situation.

I explained that the bridge structure would be complete by December 21 at the latest, but that the bridge would open permanently for vehicle traffic in June 2019. The reason is that some work, such as waterproofing the structure and applying asphalt, cannot be done in winter conditions. The waterproofing, for example requires a certain level of humidity and temperature for three consecutive days.

I have always told Montrealers that my priority is the health and safety of the workers. Sixteen hundred people work on that site around the clock, rain or shine.

The project's durability is another priority. This structure is built to be in service for the next 125 years. Clearly, therefore, we want to make sure that the work is done well.

The matter of the timeline is also essential. I have told Montrealers that, if there are deficiencies and delays, there will be consequences. That is the way the contract with the builder is structured.

Mr. Iacono, I can tell you that I will continue to provide Montrealers with information on the exact status, because the infrastructure is important.

More than 60 million people use that corridor each year. If I recall correctly, the value of the goods shipped to the United States over the bridge is more than $20 billion. The corridor is therefore essential.

As I have always been transparent and open with people, I believe that Montrealers fully understood the situation.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I represent the constituency of Alfred-Pellan, located in Laval. I am aware that the realities of urban communities are not the same as those of rural communities, especially in terms of infrastructure. That is why it is critical to understand the infrastructure needs of those communities.

Can you tell us about the efforts being made to support infrastructure projects in small communities and rural communities?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

That somewhat goes back to the question from our colleague, the member for Trois-Rivières.

In the bilateral agreements we have with the provinces, there is a component for rural and northern communities.

The reason why we created a specific program is that we are aware that rural communities, for example, have specific needs.

We also departed from the traditional three-way sharing of the funding between municipalities, provinces and the federal government that was in effect in the past.

For example, if a project is eligible for the infrastructure program for rural and northern communities, and if the local population is under 5,000, the federal government could provide up to 60% of the funding for the infrastructure, the province could assume 33% of the costs, and the community would pay the remaining 7%.

That allows things to be done that would be otherwise difficult to do, given the municipalities' tax base. The program can greatly help small communities in Canada, both in Quebec and in the west, in Alberta, for example. It is one of the programs in which the government has invested $2 billion, specifically for small communities.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

In your speech, you mentioned that a pilot project had recently been started with the provinces to test the effectiveness of a progressive billing approach.

Could you give us a little bit more detail about that? What will the effects be? What are the expectations?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Iacono.

At the last federal-provincial-territorial meeting, I raised three issues.

First, we had to make sure that our respective processes, federally, provincially and territorially, align with the construction season. Given that the construction season will not change—it is the same each year—it is up to us to plan our projects so that the workers can do their part during each construction season.

Second, we had to see how we could establish a process to make projects easier to call for, to study, and, of course, to approve. That means we have to work in concert with the provinces and territories to come up with a review process for the easiest and quickest projects.

Third, we had to make sure, as Mr. Iacono mentioned, that we have a billing process that takes into account how projects are moving forward. In some cases, provinces send us invoices when projects are complete.

That is in line with what my colleague Mr. Jeneroux asked me earlier about the impact of the projects. I can give you an example.

The Prime Minister and I went to visit the site at the Côte-Vertu metro station in Montreal. This is a major project for an underground garage for metro cars. I saw about 200 to 300 workers there. I am not an engineer, but I would say that the project is about 70 or 76% complete. The work has been going on for several years. The impact on the economy, the workers and the community is clear to see. However, up to now, the federal government has not spent one dollar on the project, because we have not received any invoices.

So we are trying to come to an agreement with the provinces so that they send us invoices as the projects move along. The federal government can then release the money gradually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We move on to Mr. Godin. Welcome to our committee, by the way.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My greetings to my right honourable colleague, the Minister of Infrastructure. Our constituencies are also adjacent.

So I would like to agree with Mr. Aubin in saying that there is unanimity on the HFT, the high frequency train project in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, while expressing the hope that service to Portneuf will not be forgotten.

Mr. Minister, earlier you provide an update on the Champlain Bridge. I believe that the Champlain Bridge is really important, and that the people of Montreal, and all Quebecers, look forward to being able to take advantage of that infrastructure.

On November 14, I wrote to you for clearer information and an update on the project. The questions that seem to me very important deal with the costs. Will there be additional costs? Will the penalties for which the consortium is liable be maintained and imposed? What changes have occurred as the process moves to completion?

Just now, you said that they need three days of good temperatures so that the workers, who are working seven days a week, can finish their work properly. This summer has been great for our workers, I feel, and we cannot blame the temperature for the delays. Let's understand that the crane operators’ strike lasted six days.

Initially, the bridge was supposed to be open to traffic on December 1. That date was pushed back to December 21, and now the opening has been postponed until the end of June 2019.

Will you make the commitment, before the committee this morning, that Montrealers will be able to use their infrastructure after a perhaps-justified six-month delay? That's the information I would like.

Will you make the commitment that, at the end of June 2019, just before the federal election campaign, the people of Montreal and Quebec will be able to use the infrastructure?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

First, I would like to thank my colleague, Mr. Godin, who is also my riding neighbour, with whom I share a large part of the territory.

I am pleased to talk about the Champlain Bridge and to answer all of my colleague's questions, as I did last time when I provided an update in Montreal.

It is important to note that the Champlain Bridge is one of the largest construction sites in North America, so it is a major project. As the member mentioned, there are more than 1,600 workers working around the clock, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

In terms of costs, I have always said that, if there are delays, there will be consequences. In conjunction with the announcements I made in Montreal last time, there are currently commercial discussions between the contractor and the Government of Canada.

When the builder informed us, a few weeks before my announcement in Montreal, that it was impossible to do some of the work, I asked for second opinions. I received confirmation that, to do some of the work, a constant temperature and humidity level for three days was required. It is important to understand that the work is being done over the St. Lawrence River.

I would like to remind my colleague that my priority is always the health and safety of the workers. None of the measures we have taken should jeopardize the health and safety of workers.

The durability of the work is another important factor. The bridge is expected to last more than 125 years. We do not want to make any compromises that could affect the durability of the work.

Finally, there is the timeline for the construction of the bridge. I told Montrealers and I am pleased to repeat it to the committee today: the bridge structure will be completed before December 21. I will cross the bridge before December 21 to demonstrate to Montrealers that the structure is complete. Anyway, people can see the progress of the work on satellite photos. However, the bridge will be permanently open to traffic later in June—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Unfortunately, I cannot let you finish your answer because my time is limited. I have only one minute left.

I have another very specific question about the bridge. The original contract provided for toll booths, and there are costs associated with those booths.

Can you tell us how much those toll booths would have cost? Does it reduce the bill for Canadian taxpayers?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Since I made that announcement, we have been in commercial discussions with the builder. When the negotiations are completed, I will be transparent, like last time, with Quebeckers and the committee by providing them with all the information on the agreement we have reached with the final builder on all the costs of the project.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have another question for you.

With respect to the excise tax, 28 municipalities in my riding are in the process of preparing their budgets and calculating the money they will have available for their activities next year, in 2019. The Programme de la taxe sur l'essence et de la contribution du Québec 2014-2018 (TECQ) has not yet been renewed. However, it will end on December 31, 2018.

Can the minister assure Quebec municipalities that this program will be renewed?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

I can assure my colleague that we will provide him with all the details in writing.

The renewal of this gas tax is in progress. I would be pleased to provide him with all the details in writing to keep him well informed on the matter. He will in turn be able to inform the municipalities in his riding. The gas tax is an important lever for small and large municipalities alike, allowing them to carry out infrastructure projects. I would be happy to provide him with details in writing, which he can then share with the municipalities in his riding.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Minister, can you tell me if this program has already been renewed? Can municipalities count on that money?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Municipalities can count on the sustainability of the gas tax program. As for the details, I would be happy to send a letter to the member, providing him and the municipalities in his riding with detailed information.

With your permission, Madam Chair, I will send a letter to the hon. member detailing the amounts that each of the municipalities in his riding will be able to receive.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Would you please send that to the clerk so that all members have an opportunity to review the same information.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Just so I'm clear, Madam Chair, do you want me to provide that information for the gas tax for every member in their riding, or just for that member?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Whatever you distribute to one member, we prefer it to be distributed in the same—