Evidence of meeting #144 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Danny Dumaresque  As an Individual
Daniel Villeneuve  President and Chief Executive Officer, Great Northern Port Inc.
Adrienne O'Pray  President and Chief Executive Officer, New Brunswick Business Council
Francois-Xavier Morency  Managing Director, Maersk Supply Service Canada Ltd.
Gaétan Boivin  Chief Executive Officer, Trois-Rivières Port Authority
Jean Côté  Deputy Managing Director, Innovation et développement économique Trois-Rivières
Alain Sans Cartier  Vice-President, Public Affairs and Strategic Partnership, Quebec Port Authority

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much for that.

I want to speak to another piece of legislation that is currently in front of the Senate. I would welcome comments by any of the witnesses in regard to Bill C-69.

Bill C-69 proposes to tighten regulations involved in building new infrastructure. I had the opportunity to participate in an interview with a journalist who was doing a story on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway celebrating their 60th anniversary. The question was, did we believe that this project would go forward today with the current environment and if Bill C-69 were to pass?

I'm just wondering if any of you have any comments on Bill C-69 and the impact it would have on the projects that you are in fact suggesting as part of a transportation strategy.

11:55 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Great Northern Port Inc.

Daniel Villeneuve

I can speak to our recent journey that we've taken. We started in November 2016. The environmental process in Newfoundland and Labrador, of course...and the federal government was also included in different departments.... We submitted in November 2017, and we're expecting a final decision from the provincial minister on June 8 for final approval. It was a very long, complicated and expensive process but it assured.... I'm very confident of this because of our experience. It's much like what this gentleman was referring to a while ago: we have one chance to be able to get it right. The environment should not have to suffer because of the economy; the economy should not have to suffer because of the environment. It's finding a balance between those two, much like the gentleman from Ontario was mentioning about the balance of being able to develop business.

I currently own a divested port from the ports program. The unfortunate part about the diversification of ports in Canada is that they are not privately owned. So you're not getting private investments. You're going to have people looking for opportunity and so on, but it's not done in that way. I think in our particular port project in Newfoundland, it will be private. It will be a good example to do that. On the environmental side, it is long.

As far as the insights of Bill C-69 go, I'm not really on top of that. I believe the process is that we have to find the balance between the economy and the environment.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you.

We go on to Mr. Hardie.

Noon

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

It was intriguing Mr. Dumaresque to see you cite Norway as an example of a country that's getting things done. Good heavens...33 undersea tunnels. It occurs that part of the mystery as to why that is happening there and we have such a difficult time with that happening here has to do with taxes. Taxes are vilified by most people—some more than others.

You'd be interested to know that in Norway taxes are anywhere up to 45% of GDP. In Canada, the number has actually been falling as a per cent of GDP. It's now 32.2%. The price of a litre of gas in Norway today is $2.94 Canadian, and 63% of that is for taxes. It's very clear that in part the ability of a country to do things and pay for them somehow relies on this notion of the common good. We know that Norway has a more socialistic view of the world.

Do we need to start looking at that?

Obviously, there's a lot more to do in Canada than the federal government or any government has the money to do. How do we square that?

Are there any thoughts on that?

Noon

As an Individual

Danny Dumaresque

As I said earlier, my basis for this project is twofold. One is, we must spend public money more wisely. Right now, we know we are committed to spending some $2.4 billion over the next 40 years on a ferry or an icebreaker, or a freight vessel from Quebec to service the region.

What we should be doing, and this is what Norway did...Norway looked at the different parts of its country and asked why it was spending $10 million a year on a ferry when it could spend $100 million and there'd never be a ferry. After 20 years, there would never be a public cent required to service that much improved transportation link.

I'll give you a couple of broad strokes. In the 1970s and 1980s, we had a railway in Newfoundland. We came into Confederation with a railway, but of course, the railway wasn't the most efficient way of transporting goods from one community to another, so we traded the railway for the Trans-Canada Highway across the island of Newfoundland.

In 1996, when I was in government, we looked at the coastal marine service in Labrador, serving some 45 communities. It was costing a fortune for the Government of Canada, so we made a deal to take responsibility for the marine service. We took the money and put it into building the Trans-Labrador Highway.

Now it's time to take the straits ferry, the icebreakers and the Quebec freight vessels and make the deal to put in the subsea road tunnel. You will then complete that efficient national transportation system. Proverbially, it will be the last spike in joining Canada from sea to sea to sea.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you to our witnesses. It was a very informative session. We really missed the fact that the committee wasn't able to visit St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador. It would have been quite an experience, but who knows? No chance this time, but maybe there's a future opportunity.

We will suspend for a few minutes while our other witnesses come to the table.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm calling the meeting back to order.

Welcome to our witnesses.

From Innovation et Développement économique Trois-Rivières, we have Mario De Tilly, Managing Director, and Jean Côté, Deputy Managing Director.

From the Quebec Port Authority, we have Alain Sans Cartier, Vice-President, Public Affairs and Strategic Partnerships.

From the Trois-Rivières Port Authority, we have Gaëtan Boivin, Chief Executive Officer.

Mr. Boivin, we're going to start with you for five minutes.

12:10 p.m.

Gaétan Boivin Chief Executive Officer, Trois-Rivières Port Authority

Thank you.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, Mr. Aubin, MP for Trois-Rivières, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak to you today.

Recognized for the excellence of its terminal operators, its qualified workers and the quality of its infrastructure, the Port de Trois-Rivières welcomes ships year round. The Port has experienced steady growth in traffic while complying with strict environmental standards and working harmoniously with the community.

In 2018, 3.9 million tonnes of merchandise moved through the Port for an estimated value of $3.3 billion. Trois-Rivières is linked to hundreds of ports in more than 40 countries annually. Its port facilities serve businesses located in Quebec, Ontario, western Canada, and throughout North America. They meet the needs of many key sectors of Canada's economy, such as the manufacturing, agri-food, mining, and energy industries.

In 2007, the future of the Port de Trois-Rivières did not look bright. Its infrastructure was old and outdated, revenues were insufficient, and traffic was declining. It also had a bad environmental record and poor urban integration. That is what led the port authority to undertake strategic planning focused around the participation of all stakeholders, for a contribution to strong and optimal economic and regional development. The guiding vision for the plan was, “Developing modern, productive, community-integrated infrastructure in support of a skilled workforce”. Every stakeholder remained focused on that vision, which is what made it a reality.

On Course for 2020 helped bring in modern infrastructure, which paved the way to greater intermodality, full and complete management of safety and security, a reduced environmental impact while allowing an increase in traffic, a harmonious integration with the urban environment, and a significant boost in socio-economic spinoffs, all against the backdrop of good governance.

Investments totalling $132 million from both levels of government, the port authority and its users, this plan, which was completed in 2017, increased capacity by 40%, which is currently being fully utilized, all while the port is getting requests from countless other shippers.

In the wake of such tremendous success, we decided to keep going and launched the On Track for 2030 last October.

The Port de Trois-Rivières is an urban port. It is literally surrounded by the city. The urban zone puts a great deal of pressure on the port's activities and those in turn can appear incompatible with the surroundings. Obviously this could be a source of conflict unless the port fully accepts this urban reality and the city accepts its status as a port city.

That is what the port and city of Trois-Rivières did and the strategic planning exercise that led to On Track for 2030 is based on this fundamental premise. In acknowledging its urban nature, the port did not view it as an obstacle to development, but rather saw and seized opportunities that would otherwise go unnoticed. That recognition revealed who mattered most to the port and that motivates all our actions.

A survey conducted in 2018 showed that 95% of our population has a good or very good opinion of the port. A majority is in favour of increasing its activities.

Like many ports around the world, the Port de Trois-Rivières is looking to convert some of its facilities for tourism, and residential and commercial use and is working with Transport Canada on getting approval for that. This will allow the port to collaborate with the city and private partners on developing its properties near the harbourfront park in harmony with the neighbouring area.

As part of the review to modernize ports, it is essential that port authorities have the power to do much more.

In support of their growth, the port and its partners will play an active role in improving the competitiveness of aspects that constitute the supply chain, namely marine, rail and road transportation services. This will make the port more competitive and the region even more attractive to investors.

These initiatives will better position Trois-Rivières on the international scene and that is where there is potential for growth. The port plans to fit-up new storage space and build new docks. A request for funding for that purpose has been submitted to the National Trade Corridors Fund.

Finally, the port has created for its users and clients two funds worth $2.5 million over five years. The Innovation fund supports solutions for enhancing the Port's competitiveness. The Environment fund complements the financing package for projects to improve the Port's environmental record.

Through all these actions, we are trying to be an innovative urban port that drives growth at the heart of a logistics chain.

Thank you for your attention.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Boivin.

Mr. Côté.

May 16th, 2019 / 12:15 p.m.

Jean Côté Deputy Managing Director, Innovation et développement économique Trois-Rivières

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for inviting me here today to talk about the Trois-Rivières airport.

The Trois-Rivières airport is a cornerstone of economic development in Mauricie and Quebec. The technical specifications of the airport, its exceptional geographic location halfway between Montreal and Quebec City, its integration with the modern transportation system, the presence of key aerospace players backed by a structured and skilled value chain, make this airport a key economic driver and indisputable player in Canada's aerospace industry.

The airport has high-quality modern infrastructure and can accommodate all types of planes. It has the added benefit of being near the Port de Trois-Rivières, the Chemins de fer Québec-Gatineau railway, and major arteries the autoroutes 40 and 55. This proximity puts the Trois-Rivières airport on a strong mutimodal platform. The airport also accommodates a pool of aerospace companies and suppliers that position the city and the region as a major support hub to the aerospace industry, which is generally concentrated in the greater Montreal area and around the world.

The countless companies operating at the Trois-Rivières airport spent a total of $90.7 million from 2012-2014. Nearly 75% of the spending on goods and services, for a total of roughly $67 million, is done in Quebec, with the neighbouring provinces meeting the rest of the needs.

The economic impact analysis of the activities at the Trois-Rivières airport that I will sum up for you was conducted through Quebec's inter-sectoral model, a tool developed by the Institut de la statistique du Québec.

For 2014, the overall economic impact — the direct and indirect benefits, or induced effects — of the companies installed at the airport, was valued at $92.8 million. This helped to create or maintain roughly 814 jobs. In 2014, 372 of those jobs were on airport property alone, a number that has now reached 460. The total economic impact has produced a payroll of more than $39 million. The airport's operating revenue and other revenue is valued at $37 million, while the annual revenue that both levels of government collect in tax and from incidental taxation totalled $15.8 million.

The Trois-Rivières airport is a hub for commercial flights with a bright future. On July 28, Transport Canada changed its regulations for designating commercial airports. Under this amendment, the Trois-Rivières airport can now apply to Transport Canada for the suite of services provided by the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority. This is a rather difficult and onerous process.

For years, Innovation et Développement économique Trois-Rivières has been developing business relationships with several low-cost air carriers including Sunwing — which has been in the news a lot lately — or Air Transat. These companies operate Boeing 737 or Airbus 319, 320, or 321, which the Trois-Rivières airport can already accommodate with no problem.

This will bring in other revenue streams from parking fees, rent from car rental agencies or restaurant owners, or revenue from air transportation related services such as shuttle services.

Bringing in these services will allow the airport to attract other airlines to connect Trois-Rivières to Canadian or international destinations, fuelling a growing tourism clientele.

For that, the city of Trois-Rivières has already invested $24 million in airport infrastructure and allocated an additional $4 million to build a new terminal. The current terminal has reached the end of its useful life. The new terminal project is estimated to cost $11 million and obviously we are also asking the federal government to contribute to the project.

I will now explain the importance of having an airport in Trois-Rivières. When a new company is scouting a new location, the most important factors influencing the final decision is the availability of skilled workers, followed by financial incentives, and thirdly, the proximity to an airport with services.

Among the key factors that make airports particularly important to businesses, we can point to the growing need for connection and accessibility, the internationalization of activities, the need for flexibility in production systems—including "just-in-time," which is a perfect illustration of this—and the increasing mobility of skilled workers.

In its local action plan on the economy and employment, Innovation et Développement économique Trois-Rivières does identify the aeronautics, logistics and distribution sectors as priorities. Basically, the Trois-Rivières airport plays a major economic role, both as a direct job creator and an incentive for businesses whose main criteria include having an airport nearby.

In regard to the high-frequency train, I will simply mention the environmental impacts. One of the many benefits this train will bring is a carbon reduction of 10.3 million tonnes of greenhouse gases by 2050.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Côté.

Hopefully you can get the balance of your comments in during response to questions.

We will go on to Mr. Sans Cartier, for five minutes, please.

12:20 p.m.

Alain Sans Cartier Vice-President, Public Affairs and Strategic Partnership, Quebec Port Authority

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, members of the committee, for welcoming us this morning.

As the last deepwater port closest to the heart of America, the Port of Québec's strategic advantages make it a key player in the continental supply chain. Our market extends all the way to the Great Lakes. We are one of Canada's top five ports and transship 27 million tonnes of cargo, mainly bulk cargo, worth $20 billion. We do business with some 60 countries and 300 ports.

With a water depth of 15 metres at low tide, the Port of Québec has a fully intermodal terminal and plays a key role as a transshipment port in the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes corridor. According to KPMG, our port has generated 13,250 direct and indirect jobs, as well as $1.3 billion in economic spin-offs across Canada.

The Port of Québec is also a destination for international cruises. With 230,000 visitors a year, it is the largest port in the St. Lawrence for cruise ships. Fully 20% of our territory is dedicated to urban and recreational tourism activities.

I will now give you an overview of the main issues the Port of Québec has to address to ensure its development. In a country like Canada, whose economic vitality relies on access to international markets, port infrastructure is of course a strategic asset. Unfortunately, the Port of Québec, as many other ports, must deal with aging infrastructure. Our most recent sector was built in the sixties, while our oldest dates back to the nineteenth century. We would need over $300 million to rebuild our port heritage. Clearly, our port, much like the other ports, does not have the financial capacity to cover these costs on its own.

Fortunately, in 2018 we received a $15-million contribution from the National Trade Corridors Fund to carry out a $30-million restoration project. However, with a budget of $2.2 billion over 11 years, the NTCF is not able to meet all the pressing needs. Therefore, we think that the sheer scale of those needs calls for the creation of an infrastructure restoration program, specifically for ports, to modernize Canada's strategic port heritage.

Moreover, intermodality is essential for Canadian ports to remain competitive. Rail and road access is vital if we want to offer businesses the best solutions for reaching their markets. The growth of international trade requires increased capacity and fluidity. The reality is that Canada's ports are often built right in a city core, as is the case in Quebec City. It is therefore essential to invest in these intermodal links, both to retain access and to improve capacity. It's just as important to invest in infrastructure to mitigate the impact of port activity on the urban landscape.

The Port of Québec is planning its development from a global perspective. Our development is based on a vision of the St. Lawrence that focuses primarily on the competitiveness of the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes trade corridor, a gateway for eastern Canada. This trade corridor reaches a market of 110 million consumers, but it has to compete with east coast ports in the U.S., which have made massive investments to improve their access to this huge market.

The new Panama Canal opened in 2016 with a new water-depth standard of 15 metres. It can now accommodate a new generation of even larger ships, the New Panamax, which can carry up to 14,000 containers. This depth of 15 metres is now the new industry standard for the American eastern seabord ports, which, like the the ports of the St. Lawrence, also serve the Midwest market. American ports, which are the St. Lawrence ports' main competitors, have launched major dredging operations and are working to modernize their rail networks to adapt to this new standard.

The Port of New York and New Jersey has invested $2.1 billion in dredging alone, primarily to adapt the docks to the new water-depth standard of 15 metres. The port also invested $1.6 billion in works to raise the Bayonne Bridge to allow for the transit of large container ships.

The Port of Québec already has a water depth of 15 metres at low tide. Note that past the Quebec Bridge, the navigation channel is limited to only 11.3 metres as far as Montreal. That is why the Port of Québec is pushing for the construction of a new deepwater container terminal. This would involve a 17-hectare land expansion and a wharf line with water depth of 16 metres. The new terminal will be able to handle 500,000 containers a year and will give the St. Lawrence a viable deepwater option to compete with east cost ports in the U.S. In addition, the terminal will supplement our eastern ports. Ultimately, this project will consolidate our position and regain market share from the U.S. ports. This project is currently under assessment by the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

In closing, I would like to share a few thoughts about some of our development issues. It is vital that we maintain a balance between developing infrastructure and protecting the environment. The significant delays and costs associated with current environmental processes must be considered with care to optimize successful project outcomes.

Canada's port authorities have to deal with borrowing capacity limits, which could become a major constraint in ensuring the closing of financing for major projects. There is a need for greater flexibility.

Our business activities are governed by letters patent, which define both our activities and our business relationships. These letters patent can constrain our efforts to adapt to changing business practices. A more flexible amendment process would be a considerable improvement. It would help us adapt more effectively to the current situation.

Lastly, major development projects should always be examined from the perspective of improving our international competitiveness, within an approach focused on regional complementarity.

Thank you for your attention.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you all very much. I realize that five minutes is not a lot of time for such important information, but the committee wants to have time for questions.

Mr. Jeneroux.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here today.

I'll jump to my first question. My colleague Kelly and I met with some port authorities, and they alerted us to something that is apparently in Bill C-69, in terms of the review of environmental assessments. Port authorities can no longer conduct reviews on environmental assessments for smaller projects. Is that the case? Do you know any background on that, perhaps?

12:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and Strategic Partnership, Quebec Port Authority

Alain Sans Cartier

The Association of Canadian Port Authorities has spoken on Bill C-69. There are of course many concerns about the time limits set out in the bill. The timelines for environmental assessments are already a challenge, even though all Canadian ports are putting considerable effort and resources into minimizing environmental impacts. There are still concerns about this. The question is how to reduce delays without compromising the quality of environmental assessments. Time limits should be more reasonable and more in line with development projects.

Bill C-69 raises concerns around the whole issue of time limits. It could increase delays when the ones we have are already problematic.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Mr. Boivin, go ahead.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Trois-Rivières Port Authority

Gaétan Boivin

I was going to say the same thing. The port authorities' environmental assessment process is currently very well managed. The new bill is not going to improve things, and I would even say it will make them worse. In my view, no port authority wants this bill, and the Association has spoken on it.

I'm with Mr. Sans Cartier, from the Port de Québec. Port authorities are friends of the environment. Sustainable development is extremely important for Canadian port authorities. The problem is more about the time limits.

In 2014, our administration started working with Environment Canada for a project involving wharves 21, 22 and 23, but the project won't be completed for another two years. We're talking about seven years to carry out a medium-size project in a port like Trois-Rivières.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Great. As the authority, you also deal with a number of private sector entities within the port. Have you heard from them? Were they able to weigh in on Bill C-69 in particular?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Trois-Rivières Port Authority

Gaétan Boivin

They rely a lot on us. We are the ones.... We've learned, I would say in particular in Trois-Rivières, to work with them. If I compare the situation to that of 10 years ago, when we had to convince them about improving the environment, these days it's a natural for them. Not only do they comply, but they work with us. We're working together, which we weren't doing 10 years ago. Actually, for our customers in Trois-Rivières, it's a done deal. It's really nice to work with them these days, I'll tell you, but in the right direction.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Monsieur Sans Cartier, go ahead.

12:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Public Affairs and Strategic Partnership, Quebec Port Authority

Alain Sans Cartier

There certainly has been a rather considerable culture change in recent years, or even decades. I can confirm what Mr. Boivin said. We and our private sector partners have made a significant shift ourselves to ensure that we take all environmental impacts into account.

Many Canadian ports are located right in a city. We must ensure we integrate well into the city. The first questions all our private sector partners and even potential partners ask us are always about our environmental policies and programs, because that is important to them.

This brings me back to the time limits issue. As part of our container terminal project, we went on a world tour to meet the globe's leading maritime players, both in Europe and in Asia. One thing that often came up was that these major global operators would like to invest in Canada, but they are worried about the changing situation around the increasingly complicated delays involved in getting environmental approvals. This is a concern they shared with us.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We will go on to Mr. Badawey.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I first want to say to Trois-Rivières, congratulations on what you're doing. I've been there myself and seen how you've really taken full advantage of the multi land uses that you're challenged by.

12:35 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Trois-Rivières Port Authority

Gaétan Boivin

Yes, thank you.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

In my part of the world, in Port Colborne, right along Lake Erie and the Welland Canal, we have the same challenges.