Transport Committee on March 23rd, 2017

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm calling the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, meeting number 51, to order please.

Good morning to all of you. It's nice to see you all back.

We gather today to study the subject matter of the supplementary estimates (C) and the main estimates for Infrastructure Canada and Transport Canada.

We will begin with the votes under Infrastructure Canada, namely votes 1, 5, and 10 under the Office of Infrastructure of Canada; vote 1 under the Jacques-Cartier and Champlain Bridges Incorporated; vote 1 under the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority; and votes 1 and 5 under PPP Canada Inc., referred to the committee on Thursday, February 23, 2017.

For the Office of Infrastructure of Canada we have with us Ms. Yazmine Laroche, associate deputy minister of infrastructure and communities; Ms. Darlene Boileau, ADM, corporate services and chief financial officer; Mr. Marc Fortin, ADM, program operations; and Mr. Glenn Campbell, executive director of the Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office.

For the Jacques-Cartier and Champlain Bridges we have Mr. Claude Lachance, senior director, administration. For the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority, we have Mr. Michael Cautillo, president and CEO, along with Ms. Linda Hurdle, chief financial administration officer, by teleconference.

Finally, on behalf of PPP Canada Inc. we have Mr. Greg Smith, vice-president, finance, risk and administration, and chief financial officer.

Welcome to everyone.

For the information of the committee, it is not my intent as the chair to call for votes on these today. On April 13 we will have Minister Sohi with us, and it is my intent, our committee's intent, that we will have the votes following his appearance here.

We will start the discussion by calling vote 1 under the Office of Infrastructure of Canada.

Ms. Laroche, we go over to you for five minutes, please.

[Yazmine Laroche, Associate Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm delighted to be appear before the committee today with my colleagues.

We've been asked to appear today to speak about the important work that Infrastructure Canada is doing to support the Government of Canada's commitments to invest in Canadian communities. As the chair just mentioned, our minister is looking forward to coming and meeting with you in a few weeks' time on April 13.

I won't repeat the introductions of all of the colleagues who are with us today. We have representatives from the ministry of infrastructure and communities, and also members of Minister Sohi's portfolio.

We will be pleased to give you an update on the progress we have made since our last appearance before the committee.

As you will have noted, Infrastructure Canada has requested $7 billion for the upcoming fiscal year. This forecast reflects the progress the department is making in delivering Investing in Canada, the long-term infrastructure plan. It also indicates the anticipated reimbursements to proponents whose projects are already underway, but it does not include the funds mentioned in yesterday's budget.

The Government of Canada committed to working closely with partners to accelerate the funding being delivered under legacy programs—such as the New Building Canada Fund—and to quickly move forward with new programs to support projects across the country.

Of those legacy programs, $800 million was committed in the last year, and projects are moving forward. The remaining $30 million is being transferred directly into the federal Gas Tax Fund. This approach is generating results. For example, in Newfoundland 20 projects were approved in the last year, whereas no projects had been approved in the previous three years.

With regard to the new programs announced in budget 2016, the department has now approved more than 1,100 projects under the public transit infrastructure fund and the clean water and wastewater fund.

In Trois-Rivières the city is renewing water pipes and investing in the Matton pumping station.

Surrey, British Columbia, has been investing in the planning required to expand key transit lines to help people get to and from work and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

In the north, Iqaluit is also making use of phase one funding with the construction of a new secondary wastewater treatment plant. This means that wastewater will be further purified before it is released into the environment. Once complete, the project will help Iqaluit foster sustainable development and meet regulatory requirements for years to come.

Caverly Road in Aylmer, Ontario, was revitalized with new curbs, sidewalks, as well as stormwater and watermain infrastructure. New asphalt, permanent pavement markings, and a cycling route were added to improve safety for the many commuters who will use this roadway daily.

There is more work underway across the country. The new Champlain Bridge Corridor Project, for example, has been under construction for over 18 months and remains on track to be open to the public for December 2018. This summer will be a particularly important construction season as the main bridge structure continues to take form and work progresses on other key components of the corridor.

In addition, the preliminary work for the Gordie Howe International Bridge continues and the request for proposals process is underway. Infrastructure Canada has acquired all of the necessary Canadian properties and we are continuing to complete the acquisitions in the United States. The Prime Minister's recent meeting with the President demonstrated that this project remains a priority for both countries.

The department also continues to work closely with the folks at PPP Canada on the new Canadian Infrastructure Bank. The Bank will be both an important source of funding and a centre of excellence for infrastructure investments.

Infrastructure Canada continues to make significant investments in communities across Canada. The estimates we have put forward will enable the department to move forward on our core funding commitments. I am sure my colleagues both in the department and from the portfolio agencies would be happy to respond to any questions you might have.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much for that very brief but very exact information.

We'll go to Mr. Doherty for six minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's an honour to be here.

I think I can speak on behalf of my colleagues here and say that it would have been great for the minister to appear before us in person. Perhaps I can offer that the minister is not appearing before us because of the dismal record that we're seeing before us and the announcements made yesterday indicating that budget 2017 probably just misses the mark.

I will direct my—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Just to clarify, the minister has agreed to attend the next meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

The minister will be here for the meeting of April 13.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

The point we are making is that we are here today with the understanding and the hope that we could question the minister on the record of the last while and the supplementary estimates today. It is disappointing that the minister's not here to defend the record.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order again.

I think the member is fully cognizant of the fact that not only is the minister going to be attending the next meeting, but also that the members opposite will have ample opportunity to pass on questions to the minister. I am sure that the minister will be more than happy to answer those questions.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Chair, what kind of point of order is that?

[An hon. member]

This is debate, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Chair, I will direct my questions to the ADM.

Ms. Laroche, we saw that over 30% of the infrastructure funding committed in 2016 has lapsed, with most of it being shifted to 2018-19. This is forcing rural communities to play the wait-and-see game, and the government is really asking these communities to trust it.

Why wasn't the funding simply added to the gas tax fund, so that communities could quickly address current infrastructure issues rather than waiting?

[Yazmine Laroche]

Thank you that question. It is a really good one.

It's emblematic of the way our infrastructure programs work. Other than the gas tax fund, the bulk of our programs are negotiated with provinces and territories, and when we establish our spending estimates and our flow of funds, we do it based on the best information we get from our partners. They will give us a sense of what they think they'll be able to spend from these allocated programs.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

From that, Ms. Laroche, would you say that the spending goal was unrealistic?

[Yazmine Laroche]

No, I think we make our best efforts every year. The fact that we haven't transferred the money to provinces and territories doesn't mean that the funds have not been invested in municipal infrastructure by provinces and territories. It means they have not yet submitted their claims to us. That 30% of funding that has not yet been spent has been allocated, but we have not received the claims from provinces and territories. Because of the way our programs are designed and the terms and conditions attached to them, we need to get a claim before we can cut a cheque.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Would you say that the system, perhaps, could be flawed? Is it a system issue or a management issue?

[Yazmine Laroche]

I'd say it's the way the infrastructure funding happens. If you look back over the 10 years of the life of the department, it seems to be fairly consistent. We make our best estimates with our partners, the provinces and territories, at the beginning of the year, trying to ascertain how the funds will flow, but it's not exact.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have two questions that go to that comment. Do you believe the provinces and municipalities have been adequately prepared for the influx of spending, and do you think the historic investment in infrastructure, as promised, has enough resources in place to ensure that it's spent strategically?

[Yazmine Laroche]

To answer the second question first, I believe we do have enough resources in place.

I would also say that we have now over 10 years of relationships with provinces, territories, and municipalities. For example, I have biweekly phone calls with our deputy minister counterparts right across the country. It's our way of making sure that we are in constant communication, that we understand where the pressures and the priorities are, and that we try to resolve these issues. But we can always do better, and that's what we're hoping to do.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I appreciate that, Ms. Laroche.

Is there a mechanism in place, an evaluation mechanism, that weighs rural versus urban community spending?

[Yazmine Laroche]

What do you mean by “evaluation”?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

What's the balance between the amount of money that this government promised they were going to spend in communities for infrastructure, urban versus rural?

[Yazmine Laroche]

We do track the funding. If you go to our website, for example, we have something—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

You don't have the numbers with you right now?

[Yazmine Laroche]

I don't believe I have the exact breakdowns, but I think we can get them to you.

I would encourage you to go to our website. We have a clickable map where you can go province by province and see exactly how much is being spent.

I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure we can get it to you.