Transport Committee on May 18th, 2017

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm calling to order the 60th meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, in the 42nd Parliament.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we will continue with our study of aviation safety.

We have our witnesses today from the Office of the Auditor General: Michael Ferguson, Auditor General of Canada; James McKenzie, principal; Martin Dompierre, principal; and Lucie Talbot, director.

Mr. Ferguson, we turn it over to you.

[Michael Ferguson, Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to discuss with the committee our office's recent work related to aviation safety.

This work includes our fall 2015 special examination report on the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, our spring 2012 performance audit report on the oversight of civil aviation by Transport Canada, and our spring 2017 performance audit report on civil aviation infrastructure in the north.

In our 2015 special examination of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, we wanted to know if the authority's systems and practices were working as intended. We issued the special examination report to the authority in June 2015, and we have not audited any actions taken by the authority since then.

In the special examination, we looked at the authority's screening operations. We found that the authority delivered screening services effectively, efficiently, and consistently across Canada and met its regulatory requirements. We also found that the authority tested, maintained, and planned for the replacement of its screening equipment.

However, we did note areas for improvement. For example, we found that the authority did not ensure that its screening contractors consistently communicated changes in operating procedures to screening officers. We also found that, when security incidents occurred, the screening contractor often did not submit security incident reports. Furthermore, we found that the authority did not ensure that all elements of the training and certification of its screening officers were completed as required. These findings are important because screening services are critical to the authority's mandate.

In 2012, we examined the oversight of civil aviation by Transport Canada. We presented our report to Parliament in April 2012, and we have not followed up on actions taken by the department since then.

Transport Canada is responsible for ensuring that Canada's aviation safety framework meets minimum international standards and that Canada's safety record compares favourably with other countries.

We found that Transport Canada's regulatory framework was consistent with standards established by the International Civil Aviation Organization, but that the department took too long to address new risks — in some cases, more than 10 years.

As for Transport Canada's surveillance program, we found significant weaknesses in how the department had planned and conducted its surveillance of aviation companies. For example, we found that most of the inspection files that we reviewed did not follow the department's methodology. In addition, we found that the department completed only two-thirds of the inspections it had planned for the 2010-11 fiscal year. This is significant because the department selected only higher-risk aviation companies for inspection. Furthermore, the information the department used to assess high-risk companies that should be inspected was not always available and kept up to date.

We also found that Transport Canada should have identified the number of resources and competencies it needed to plan and conduct inspections and develop a strategy to obtain these resources and competencies. Senior management needed to ensure that staff applied the established methodology.

The audit on civil aviation infrastructure in the north focused on infrastructure needs of remote northern airports and Transport Canada's leadership in assessing and addressing these needs.

Airports in the north are critical to their communities, particularly those in the 117 remote northern communities that we identified air travel as the only reliable mode of year-round transportation. These airports supply the delivery of essential goods and services, including emergency medical evacuations. The infrastructure challenges of northern airports have been well documented in various reports and assessments. Many remote northern airports need improved lighting, runways, navigational aids, and better information on weather and runway conditions.

We found that Transport Canada had not taken an active leadership role to facilitate collaborative efforts to assess and address the infrastructure needs of remote northern airports. The department's airports capital assistance program has provided some funding for projects that help remote northern airports meet the department's safety regulations and standards.

Since it's inception in 1995, the program has provided about $140 million for infrastructure projects at 67 of the 117 remote northern airports we examined. In 2016, Transport Canada surveyed airports across Canada that were eligible for program funding on their infrastructure needs.

The airports that responded identified almost 800 million dollars' worth of projects over the next three years to maintain and enhance airport safety. This included about 100 million dollars' worth of projects at remote northern airports. Between the 2014-15 fiscal year and 2016-17 fiscal year, remote northern airports received about $15 million in funding from the airports capital assistance program. It's clear that demand for infrastructure funding exceeds the program's annual budget of $38 million.

Madam Chair, this concludes my opening remarks. We would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ferguson, and thanks to your entire team, for the work you have done.

I am going to yield the floor immediately to my colleague Mr. Eglinski, who will not be with us for the whole meeting, but had some questions for you.

You have the floor, Mr. Eglinski.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak.

Welcome, gentlemen.

There is a movement under way to try to comprise all of aviation into one category in terms of flight duty times. I was wondering if, during your study, you had looked into flight duty times. Does any part of your report deal with the differences in flight duty times? I'm trying to break that down between the smaller northern operators, fixed-wing operators, the rotary-wing operators, and the separation I see that is needed between the airline corporations, or corporate flying.

[Michael Ferguson]

No, actually the flight duty was not something that was part of the audit that we did on remote northern airports.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

All right, thank you.

I'm going to let Luc go now.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Ferguson, in your last report, you referred to problems getting certain information from the Department of Finance.

I would like to know your assessment of your relationship with Transport Canada in relation to these analyses.

[Michael Ferguson]

We did not have any trouble completing those audits. In all cases, we received all the information that was needed from all the organizations involved.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Could you clarify your thinking?

You say that Transport Canada has lacked leadership. That is a very broad statement. Could you tell us precisely what Transport Canada could have done better in this regard? What are the serious failings that have been identified? Saying that Transport Canada, the organization responsible for managing our civil aviation, lacks leadership is a little concerning for the public who have to use airplanes and civil aviation facilities on a regular basis.

Could you clarify what you mean by that statement further?

[Michael Ferguson]

The question of leadership came out in the audit of aviation in the north. We saw that Transport Canada had no plan for trying to solve the kinds of problems we discovered in that audit. Various studies done in the past had identified various problems with lighting and navigation systems, among other things. Transport Canada had no plan for solving those problems, even though they had been known for about two years. In our view, that indicated a leadership problem when it comes to aviation infrastructure in the north. It is important that Transport Canada find a way to plan the improvements that need to be made to these airports.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Have you made a connection between this lack of leadership and safety problems? Our study deals primarily with aviation safety. There are a number of things, in certain areas, such as a lack of lighting, that may be problematic in terms of airport safety.

Are you raising a red flag in some places and saying something has to be done quickly, or else safety will be jeopardized?

[Michael Ferguson]

It is not a question of flight safety; it is rather a question of flight availability.

From time to time, people need flights for medical emergencies. We observed that in some situations, companies have cancelled or delayed some flights. Those flights are important for people in the north, because these are isolated communities, so they have to be able to count on those flights for various emergency situations.

It was therefore not a question of the safety of the flights themselves, but it is very important that these communities have the necessary infrastructure. The people who live there count on these flights for situations like medical emergencies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Sorry, Mr. Berthold.

Go ahead, Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Berthold, that was a perfect segue into what I wanted to ask.

I understand from reading this report that it goes back quite some time. It goes back to 2005. You mentioned there was no plan in place and there was no leadership. Quite frankly, I would have to agree with you.

With that being said, it's 2017 now and an attempt is being made to address a lot of the recommendations you're making. I had put forward a motion at the beginning of the session and continued on at the beginning of the year, with respect to the committee going to northern Canada to study infrastructure needs, to collaborate with our northern communities and territories and folks there to address some of these issues. Unfortunately, it was turned down by the opposition members. We have yet to do that.

Do you think it would be advantageous that we as a committee, as an overall team representing this country, travel and speak with our northern partners to address immediately the infrastructure needs they currently have in place?

[Michael Ferguson]

Madam Chair, I think it is extremely important that the community understand the challenges related to civil aviation infrastructure in the north. We have identified a number of issues related to runway lighting and weather condition information. One company that supplies medical emergency flights in one of the territories had to either cancel or delay 30% of its flights over the course of a year.

I think it is important for the committee to very much understand the issues with these isolated communities that are served by these airports, many of which are indigenous communities. I think that's very important for the committee to understand. How the committee goes about doing that, I guess, is up to the committee to decide. I would say that getting a real understanding of the issues is extremely important.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you for that. I will make that attempt again in the very near future.

My second question is with respect to what has been announced in this year's budget. The Minister of Transport announced in the 2017 budget that his desire is to address the critical transportation needs of Canada's north, including improving northern airport infrastructure by committing $2 billion over the next 11 years.

Is that a good step in the right direction? Obviously, we think it is. As well, what do you think that $2 billion would attach itself to in the more immediate future?

[Michael Ferguson]

What we were looking for was Transport Canada to put together a plan that would identify and perhaps inventory all the types of issues that need to be dealt with, and put together a plan for how that would be dealt with. Obviously, having resources to deal with the issues would be important. We don't audit announcements; we audit things once they're actually being put in place.

The challenge we see in departments is that they often have a lot of difficulty actually implementing what they are asked to implement. When there are going to be steps made on this file, when there's a plan prepared and financing identified for it, the next step will be to make sure that whatever departments are involved actually do a good job of implementing that plan.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I'll end with a statement.

That's, in fact, what we're trying to do. We're trying to remove the politics of these committees and enforce the efforts we're trying to put forward together with our partners in the north. We go up there to communicate with them and identify what those challenges are, especially as they relate to infrastructure. Beyond that is then putting enablers in place, not only as you say, the $2 billion, which is an amount that was announced, but making an inventory, recognizing and putting a strategy forward to actually invest in that infrastructure. Part of that strategy is to alleviate the pressures on the taxpayer, whether it be the income tax payer or the property tax payer, again, by putting in enablers such as the infrastructure bank to then compound those dollars being made available to communities such as those in the north.

We're on that track, as you say, and I'm glad you solidified that. It really gave us some comfort and confidence that we're on the right track, in fact, to do exactly what you're actually reporting on, and that's paying some attention to the northern communities with respect to their infrastructure.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Ferguson, did you want to comment? There are 45 seconds left.

[Michael Ferguson]

No, I don't think I have any comment on that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

All right, thank you very much.

Monsieur Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank Mr. Ferguson and the members of his team for being with us this morning.

The study we are doing of aviation safety is the result of concerns expressed by various groups in the last few months, if not years. Apparently, we all thought it important to get to the bottom of the situation in order to reassure everyone, if there is no problem, or take the appropriate measures.

I would like to make some connections between your 2012 audit and the testimony we have heard. For one thing, in your last audit of the civil aviation program, which dates from 2012, you noted a number of significant weaknesses that had to be corrected and were related to how the department plans, conducts, and reports on its surveillance activities.

I would like to quote you:

While we found examples where surveillance activities met our audit criteria, most inspection files that we reviewed fell short and did not follow Transport Canada’s own established methodology.

Also in that report, you observed that the number of inspections done was lower than planned. In our study, we have learned that on August 17, 2016, Transport Canada terminated exhaustive surveillance of safety management systems without informing the public or parliamentarians.

Should we be concerned about this approach? Do you think it has a direct impact on aviation safety?

[Michael Ferguson]

We presented the audit we had done in 2012. That was the last time we worked on this issue.

At that time, we had detected significant weaknesses, and you have mentioned some of them. In my opinion, it is important that Transport Canada implement the necessary improvements in order to solve the problems we identified at that time. However, I cannot comment on any department activity since 2012, because that is the last time we examined the situation.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I understand that, Mr. Ferguson. You cannot track every matter that you do a study of. However, in 2012, did it seem to you that there was an obvious correlation between the weaknesses you detected and potential problems with aviation safety?