Evidence of meeting #69 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-49.
A video is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have to say as well, thank you, folks, for coming out today. You represent the “how” of executing trade quota strategies. I again want to thank you for that, for being here, but as well for the future efforts you guys are going to participate in to really ensure that those strategies are put in place and executed.
Mr. Given, you answered the first question I was going to ask, and that was on labour conditions. I've always looked at things under a triple bottom line lens: economic, environmental, and social. In your opening dialogue you talked about the economics of this issue. You talked about, to some extent, the environmental side of it as it relates to an integrated transportation network that includes shipping, which of course is the most environmentally friendly mode of transport. The last part was social and labour, and of course you touched on that.
The next part I want to touch on, the question to all of you, is how then the dollars follow the strategy. Currently, as part of Bill C-49, we are looking at positioning Canadian ports to be allowed to access the Canada infrastructure bank, which includes financial instruments to help fund expansion, sustainable infrastructure projects—somewhat the business you're in, Ms. Clark—to ensure that dredging occurs in those areas that need to be expanded upon for bigger vessels with a lot more draught needed. Do you feel that this will be of assistance to Canadian ports being more competitive? That's my first question.
I want to expand my question to also include, not just Canadian ports, but the world of ports. There's an anomaly that we call the St. Lawrence Seaway. I say anomaly because, at least in my part of the world, the Welland Canal, albeit a port, is not technically considered a port.
To some extent, when it comes to its management of asset, in my opinion, it's not up to par, not being abided by. Therefore my question is, when you take all of that into consideration as part of the whole network, do you think, firstly, that under Bill C-49 it is appropriate to have those dollars available to the Canada infrastructure bank? Secondly, is it appropriate to have investment dollars at the ready to expand the St. Lawrence as well as the Welland Canal?
4 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Fraser River Pile & Dredge (GP) Inc.
I can't speak for the Welland Canal, but I can speak for the west coast, which has highly competitive ports, not only Vancouver but also Prince Rupert. Our company just finished the expansion in Prince Rupert a month ago.
For Canadian ports to have access to increased funding I think is very appropriate. I know that they have had struggles with their debt room in the past, and we fully back their being able to have access to the types of funds they need to keep the west coast of Canada as competitive or more competitive.
Maybe you want to speak about it.
4 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, Ocean
Any additional money that serves to strengthen the maritime system would be welcome. Currently, some east-coast ports, in Quebec, are in a sad state in a number of respects. We have activities in all those ports. The port of Quebec City, which is one of the oldest, has difficulty in maintaining its wharves. We are regularly asked to shut down some areas of activity because the wharf is in bad condition. So, the system certainly needs money and that would be a good thing.
I wanted to tell Mrs. Block about one of our concerns about the opening of the European market that has happened, and that we can see in this bill. I feel that it should be of interest to everyone. The Europeans are going to be able to come to Canada with foreign equipment. We have been assured that there are going to be all kinds of ways to make sure that the equipment is adequate. However, if there is foreign equipment for private contracts, it is also going to come with foreign workers.
It has to be a fair fight. We are not afraid of competition, but give us the chance to be competitive. When you implement the agreement, do it in no uncertain terms and tell the Europeans how things are going to work here. That is very important for us.
4:05 p.m.
President, Seafarers' International Union of Canada
Mr. Badawey, you talked about the St. Lawrence Seaway and especially the Welland Canal. It's an area that I think is close to both of our hearts, since we're from that area. I think this is one area where we agree.
When you look at port infrastructures, when you look at the Welland Canal, when you look at the seaway property along the canal, this is where your international freight and domestic freight complement each other, where you have international trade and domestic trade working together. Those ports need to be developed. There needs to be money put into them. The development has to continue in order to facilitate the trade that the country wants and that the workforce wants. Domestically and internationally they can work hand in hand to do that. I'm glad you raised the Welland Canal. It has always baffled me why that property isn't developed, because it used to be booming along there.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
This is the last question, with respect. I want to hear from Mr. Fournier as well.
Right now you represent an area of the country that's very valuable to this entire bill strategy. What are your thoughts on the social, the environment, and of course, the economic issues, the benefits this bill is bringing forward to then contribute ultimately to the overall transportation strategy?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
Actually, a strong maritime industry has infrastructure to match the transportation needs. That means having ships that meet the highest standards in terms of energy and operational efficiency. It also means having crews that are well trained and that meet the highest standards. A strong maritime industry has all those aspects: social, environmental and economic. That is how we will be able to develop the Canadian maritime industry and make sure that it prospers.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My thanks to each one of you for being here.
I confess that I do not have a lot of questions on the basic content of your testimony, because I share your position. However, I do have some questions on the industry, so that I can understand it better.
I would like to explore the issue of the Canada Infrastructure Bank that Mr. Badawey was talking about. It seems to be well-received, since it is seen as a source of funding. However, the information we have at the moment indicates that port projects to be funded by the Canada Infrastructure Bank would be for $100 million and more.
In the port in the city I represent, Trois-Rivières, projects of $100 million and more are very rare. Perhaps the port of Vancouver has some that go over $100 million, but the Canada Infrastructure Bank is of no use with projects with a budget lower than that.
Is this not another case of what looked great the night before does not look at all good in the morning, as seems to be the case with Bill C-49? Or do you have projects that are worth that much?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, Ocean
We do not represent ports. So the projects are not—
4:05 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, Ocean
It could certainly include dredging work, for example. Perhaps it would be appropriate to amend the program so that more projects could be included; $100 million is a lot of money. At the same time, it is not a lot given the scale of the work that needs to be done. With the exception of the port of Vancouver, which is in good shape, other ports probably need significant investment.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Fournier, in one of your recommendations, you mentioned the importance of a single body. Could you explain that recommendation some more? What would be involved and why is it important?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
What we are asking for is, when a foreign vessel arrives here and applies to engage in cabotage in Canadian waters, we make sure that it has all—
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
I am talking about everything, coastal shipping and dredging. If the vessel is coming to do work that is currently governed by the Coasting Trade Act, we are asking that, once it has arrived, it can submit a proper application so that we can check whether it has received all the permits from Employment and Social Development Canada, and that the risk factors posed by the workers can be checked. Work permits also have to be checked, and we have to be sure that the crew will be paid according to Canadian standards and at Canadian rates.
All those things have to be verified before a vessel is given permission and, if so, the permission has to be validated regularly. We know that, in the past, vessels have conducted activities here without having a permit.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, Ocean
We are not asking for a new agency to be created, but we are asking that there be real oversight, culminating in final permission from Transport Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada. It is not complicated.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
Actually, those requests are made at the moment, but no one makes sure that everything has been completed before the final authorization is issued. Doing it that way would make sure that there is some rigorous control.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you,
I have a technical question, I completely understand the difference between some vessels that fly foreign flags and Canadian vessels in terms of working conditions and a number of requirements.
But, how about a vessel belonging to a Canadian owner, but flying a foreign flag? Is that vessel subject to Canadian rules or the rules of the country it represents?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
It is subject to the rules of the country whose flag it is flying. If it is registered in a foreign country, it follows the rules of the country whose flag it is flying.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Are you saying that a Canadian shipowner could provide conditions that are equivalent to those in the country where the vessel is registered?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, St. Lawrence Shipoperators
Yes, if the vessel flies that flag.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Corporate and Legal Affairs, Ocean
If it is involved in cabotage, the sailors have to be Canadian. There is that slight difference.
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Fraser River Pile & Dredge (GP) Inc.
May I just add on your question on the infrastructure bank, with projects that are over $100 million, there is an expansion of Deltaport planned by the port of Vancouver that is estimated to be in the $2.5-billion range. That would definitely be a project that the port may seek assistance on. It is also a very good example of where the European dredging community is very focused, because of the amount of dredging which is in that project.
We are a prime candidate to compete for that project. It's something we might even partner with our colleagues at Ocean group on. However, if we can't, it's a very good example of where we might not be able to compete if they are not held to that same level playing field.
