Evidence of meeting #69 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-49.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Is there any carry-over from whatever decisions or information you find that is of any advantage to other shippers?
12:15 p.m.
General Manager, Logistics and Planning, Teck Resources Limited
The process itself is such that not just the content is confidential but the actual fact that it's taking place is confidential, so it's not transported from one shipper to another. Of course, we're informed by it for future arbitrations that we undertake, but no, it doesn't go from one shipper to another. The costing determinations are absolutely confidential.
12:20 p.m.
General Manager, Logistics and Planning, Teck Resources Limited
Our ask specifically is that, in a final offer arbitration process, when a shipper makes a request for a costing determination from the agency, that costing determination be provided to the arbitrator within, let's say, five days of the request. It will not rely on co-operation from the railway. That's very important.
12:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
I just want to emphasize the point I made at the outset, and which you've acknowledged. This is a very expensive process. The vast majority of those who use the railways can't get that or can't afford to do that. That's why the other measures we're all proposing, whether they deal with data or long-haul interswitching and so on, are so important. We don't want to have to get to.... I mean, this is a last resort. Teck, I think, is the biggest customer of the railways in the country. Is that not right? We don't want to have to get to that point. If we do, we want it to work well.
The other measures we're talking about are to ensure that the system actually works such that we don't actually have to get there in the first place.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, International Trade and Transportation and Corporate Secretary, Forest Products Association of Canada
Yes, I would say on the final offer arbitration tool specifically, as Pierre has said, the changes that we too are asking for would basically be let's make it easier to use, and let's make it cheaper to use, and more accessible for shippers to use if, as a last resort, you have to go there.
Again, I would settle for just giving the agency the power to investigate matters that deserve a closer look on their own. I would be happy with that change to the bill and I would just leave final offer arbitration the way it is, but if that's the one you want to focus on, let's make it easier to use.
Our shippers are what's known as manifest shippers, so they depend on a hodgepodge of client commodities being shipped, whereas they're shipping unit trains, which are entirely different phenomena and it changes the dynamics of the relationship. That being said, it makes it even harder for members of my association to use that type of tool and without being too dramatic, that's one of the reasons why I don't see any of my members sitting beside me here this morning, because given the outcome of some of those matters and the way the railways can treat them after that kind of a case, it doesn't always work out well for the shipper. It's the job of the association to show up at places like this and propose changes to tools like that.
Thank you.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
To Ms. Kancens, one of the things we expect to hear this afternoon from the SIU is about some problems they have with labour standards as they are applied on some of these foreign-flag ships. Are you aware of any provisions to require certain things of these vessels as they're going about this business in Canada?
12:20 p.m.
Director, Policy and Trade Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada
Let me make it clear that foreign-flag ships are the ships that carry Canada's international trade. They carry virtually all of our overseas trade and half of our transborder trade. Thousands of these ships trade between Canadian ports and ports overseas. They're nothing new. They're here. They're the way that we move our trade.
Foreign-flag ships are subject to a stringent regime of regulations: safety, environmental, labour. Again, this is nothing new—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I'm sorry, by whom? Who applies these regulations to them?
September 13th, 2017 / 12:20 p.m.
Director, Policy and Trade Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada
All of the regulations are developed on a global basis by the International Maritime Organization and the International Labour Organization. They're then implemented domestically through domestic legislation. Here in Canada they're enforced by Transport Canada and other regulatory authorities as part of Canada's obligations as a port state.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
But do those regulations brought in by Transport Canada apply to the crews on foreign-flag vessels?
12:25 p.m.
Director, Policy and Trade Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada
Because it's foreign-flag shipping, foreign-flag ships are subject to regulations that are developed internationally, so then they are applied in Canada. Canada enforces them.
Sonia, maybe I'm going to leave that one to you, because I don't think I'm doing a good job on this.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I have other questions. Basically, the suspicion is that we're using cheap foreign labour that is provided by people who are not well treated. I think in the fullness of time we're going to need some comfort that's it's not the case, but I don't know that anybody can provide us with that comfort at this point.
12:25 p.m.
Sonia Simard Director, Legislative Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada
Could I maybe have a try for about two minutes?
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I don't have two minutes to give you, unfortunately. I have other questions.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
But I wouldn't mind a follow-up if you wanted to provide something. That would be quite instructive.
The other thing is that it's the old “thin edge of the wedge” argument. Okay, we're going to allow this to happen, what's next?
So what's next?
12:25 p.m.
Director, Policy and Trade Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada
We hear that argument every time there's any discussion about opening up the Coasting Trade Act. The Coasting Trade Act has historically played an important role in protecting and promoting Canadian marine industries. We have no interest in opening it up for the sake of opening it.
The fact that it plays an important role doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a step back periodically and see whether it continues to meet the needs of the Canadian economy, whether it continues to meet the needs of importers and exporters, and whether there are very targeted amendments, like the empty container repositioning provision, that we can make to the act, which improve the logistics system overall without violating any of the underlying principles of that act.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay, I'm going to have to leave it at that.
To the Mining Association, Mr. Gratton and Mr. Johnston, I'm hearing about two dynamics in your problematic relationships with the railroads. One is their pricing strategies and the other is the service issues.
Is it one or the other or both that are the primary drivers of your concerns?
