Transport Committee on Oct. 19th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

One question I have, just to start out with, is whether Canadian supertankers would be allowed to, say, go up to Valdez, Alaska, and pick up a load of diesel fuel and come through this area on their way to Washington or San Francisco or Los Angeles?

[Natasha Rascanin]

It depends on what kind of product they're carrying.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Diesel fuel.

[Natasha Rascanin]

There are many types of diesel fuel.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Light diesel fuel, gasoline.... I notice in your example you list light diesel oil and that's allowed. If I have a supertanker full of 318,000 metric tons, can I pick that up, if I'm a Canadian tanker, in Valdez and work my way through and deliver it to California? Under Bill C-48 will I be allowed to do that?

[Natasha Rascanin]

We do have the voluntary tanker exclusion zone that applies. That has been in place since 1985. Tankers would go outside of that line.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Doesn't Bill C-48 allow for that? Doesn't it allow for diesel fuel to come up—

[Natasha Rascanin]

If the product is not on the schedule, then it is not covered by the moratorium. If it's not crude oil in the legislation and it's not in the schedule, it would not be covered by the moratorium legislation.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

You could drive a tanker through there, right?

[Natasha Rascanin]

Except that tankers are supposed to follow the voluntary exclusion—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Voluntary, right.

[Jennifer Saxe]

It depends on the volume that you have as well. It would have to be a tanker where the persistent.... If it's 12,500, as long as it's non-persistent oil, if it's only light diesel and that's the only product being carried, then that would be permitted. If it is carrying persistent oil as well above that 12,500, then it wouldn't be.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That was what I was asking, though. If I have a supertanker with 318,000 metric tons of light diesel oil that's allowed under C-48, can I drive my boat up and down? Can I do that?

[Natasha Rascanin]

Anything that's not on the schedule can be transported.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That seems like a “yes” to me.

What scientific studies have the department, or Environment Canada, or NGO environmental groups done to weigh out the environmental risks? Are there any evidence-based, scientific studies to say that, if we have a terrible spill of 318,000 metric tons of light diesel oil versus 12,500 of any of the other ones prescribed in your bill...?

Is there scientific evidence that we can look at that says the devastation is 10 out of 10 for one, and the other, for example, is two out of 10? What studies are out there for that? I think that probably should have been done, or it should have been based on one. Is there an answer for that one?

[Jennifer Saxe]

I think it's important that this moratorium act is an additional precautionary measure, and it is one of multiple measures that are in place.

There is the tanker exclusion zone, and laden oil tankers from Alaska to west coast ports and the northeastern United States do abide by this. This is something that is monitored, and consistently we have seen that industry does abide by that tanker exclusion zone.

This moratorium act is a complementary measure. It is an additional measure to provide that additional protection to the environment.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

We can dig further into that later.

I have one other question before my time runs out. Does Transport Canada work with the department of indigenous affairs on the consultation process, or do you have your own in-house group that works to ensure adequate consultation with indigenous Canadians?

[Natasha Rascanin]

We have both. We work very closely with INAC, and we have folks in our own department who have that expertise. We continue to work through the oceans protection plan, in particular, as an example, as a whole-of-government national program to build new partnerships and continue to work with all indigenous nations.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Does duty to consent come up in the discussions?

[Natasha Rascanin]

It has not come up in any discussions that I have been in, the direct question of consent.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That's interesting, too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 45 seconds left.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

One other quick question concerns the support west of Haida Gwaii for Canadian tankers, Russian tankers, and American tankers that break down. What supports are proposed here to beef up the support for a tanker that breaks down en route? I think there might be some supports lacking there.

[Natasha Rascanin]

There are a number of measures that are already in existence, and Canada's marine safety record has been very good, but as the ministry indicated, the oceans protection plan is bringing additional marine safety improvements to fill some of the gaps where they may have existed.

There will be a certain rescue tug capacity available, and the Coast Guard has a number of additional enhancements to their ships under the oceans protection plan, so those are examples of the various marine safety enhancements that are coming.