Evidence of meeting #81 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here.
I want to refer to a Canadian Press article from October 29. I'll read the first sentence of this news article, and then we can delve into the details behind it: “Transport Canada is planning to stop evaluating pilots who perform checks on their counterparts at the country's largest airlines and will instead give the responsibility to the operators, a change critics say erodes oversight and public safety.”
Who among you can respond to this and tell us what's going on?
Ms. MacDonald.
3:40 p.m.
Lori MacDonald Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
The check pilot program action in Transport Canada has been around for about 30 years now. Very clearly, the intent is to continue with that program so, first and foremost, the program is not ending. In fact, Transport Canada is going to enhance that program in taking the resources that we have now and using them in a more effective and efficient way. What that will do for us is enhance the safety and security that our pilots have in terms of their responsibilities, while at the same time providing us with a more robust system that we can use in terms of checking pilots.
Specifically, what happens is that we have a set of inspectors who go out and test pilots yearly or every two years, when they come up for their annual testing period. Sometimes our inspectors do it, and sometimes we use check pilot program people from our industry. They receive the same amount of training that our pilots do to do this particular responsibility, and we do that so we can broaden our area of scope in terms of being able to use more resources.
Transport Canada has approximately 1,200 or 1,300 inspectors right now, of whom about 675 are responsible for civil aviation. We look at all those resources and then we focus them on the task they need to do. In fact, we're not cutting any resources. We're not changing the program in terms of the amount of assessment that gets done, but we're focusing it on the key high-risk areas to ensure that we have the safest and most secure aviation system.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
What would be the ratio of tests done by Transport Canada versus the check pilots?
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I don't have that broken down in terms of numbers, because they're all trained to the same level, to be able to do the same type of testing, regardless of whether they are a check pilot working in industry or an inspector working for Transport Canada.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Previously, or at least to this point, all of them—those with Transport Canada or with the airlines themselves—would have had evaluations done. How often?
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Depending on the pilot and the type of plane they're flying, it could be every year or every two years. This is a type of program that's used around the world. It's not just a Canadian phenomenon to use this check pilot program and to use industry and a combination of Transport Canada inspectors and others. It's common in the United States, in Europe, and so on.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Do they continue to check their check pilots and government inspectors?
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Absolutely. In fact, we also test our checked pilots, the people doing the testing. We have an oversight program for them as well to ensure that they're at their optimal in terms of doing the test.
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
The actual change is that we're focusing more on high-risk areas. One of the advantages we have is that we've collected data over several years, and what that tells us is that in our very low-risk areas we have a very high percentage of conformity, meaning that there is a rate of very few errors.
What we see is that in higher-risk areas we want to pay more attention to them to ensure that we're testing pilots in such a fashion that we can catch those kinds of errors, look at any kinds of trends that are happening, and adjust in terms of the testing.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
What I hear is that the check pilots continue to perform very well with a very low error rate, but you've identified areas of higher risk. What would they be?
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
It would depend on the pilot. It could be anything, from how they use the equipment.... Of course, aircraft are evolving. New aircraft come in. There are new consoles and new types of equipment in the flying program. We look at what is the error rate with this new equipment. We look at how they respond to training in stress situations in simulators. We look at what we see with respect to trends and how well they perform in those kinds of situations.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
How would you respond to folks who would say that we're leaving the fox to guard the henhouse here if we're subletting, if you like, the authority of Transport Canada to the airlines to monitor themselves? What do you say in terms of public confidence in that process?
3:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I would say a couple of things. Because it's a program that's used around the world, I think it's important to recognize that there's confidence in airlines in like-minded countries that use this program. It is very robust, but I also think it's important to take a look at what evidence is out there.
As an example, the Transportation Safety Board presented a report to Parliament last year that showed there was a 25% reduction in accidents over the past 10 years. That's due in large part to the kind of robust oversight that Transport Canada has put in place, including this check pilot program.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Likewise, Madam Chair. Thank you for your welcome.
I would also like to thank my colleagues, whom I'm happy to see again.
First, I want to point out that we are going to welcome the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities during the second hour, and that seems appropriate to me. However, I am a little disappointed that the Minister of Transport, whose credits we are studying, is not here in the first hour to answer questions.
It would be all the more relevant for us to vote on the motion I sent you a few days ago. Its purpose is to request that the Minister of Transport and François Collins, the director of National Operations and Civil Aviation at Transport Canada, come to testify, in an attempt to shed light on this issue, which follows from the brilliant study we carried out on aviation safety.
Do you want us to vote now or wait until the end of the meeting so that we can spend as much time as possible with the witnesses?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Let's go with your suggestion. If you're moving it now, we could vote on it at the end of our meeting, Mr. Aubin, just so we have the officials for the maximum amount of time.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
I'm therefore relying on the fact that we can vote at the end of the meeting. I'll now move on to my questions. I have many.
My first ones are for the CATSA representatives. It would be good if the questions and answers were short, so I can ask them all.
An amount of $721 million was raised last year through the air travellers security charge. However, the amount submitted to you was $678 million. I imagine the difference is paid to the public purse.
Do you think this financial model is sustainable in the medium and long term, given the growth in air traffic?
3:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
I don't think we can really comment on CATSA's funding model to determine whether it is appropriate or not. We have no direct relationship to the amount of money raised through the fees. Our entire budget comes from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
All right.
Could a representative from Transport Canada comment on this process?
3:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Transport
Are you talking about the process for the allocation of funds?
