Transport Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Sohi.

We'll move on to Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a brief question for Minister Sohi.

You're asking for a significant increase of $61 million in operating funds for the Champlain Bridge. Can you assure the committee that the bridge is going to be completed on time, in December of next year?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Absolutely. I can tell the committee that we have taken a number of steps in working with the proponent of that particular project to ensure the project actually gets built on time. I want to also assure you that the existing Champlain Bridge is safe for commuters, and we are very committed to that.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I would like to bring the focus back to the Windsor-Detroit crossing. I am dumbfounded as to why the government would approve a permit for the construction of a second bridge, the new Ambassador Bridge, when the owner of the existing bridge has fought Canadians' interests at each and every step of the way for the last decade or more, whether it was by failing to keep the existing bridge in a good state of repair or by fighting us on the construction of the Gordie Howe crossing.

I'm dumbfounded as to why we would approve a second Ambassador Bridge. We have four lanes on the Detroit-Windsor crossing right now, on the St. Clair River, and we're now going to go from four lanes to twelve lanes, a tripling of capacity, at a time when traffic is plummeting. The latest data I've looked at shows that at the Windsor-Detroit Ambassador Bridge crossing traffic dropped from 12.2 million cars and trucks in 2000 to 6.8 million cars and trucks last year.

This is not an isolated phenomenon. At all of the border crossings between Ontario and upstate New York, and between Ontario and Michigan, traffic is down. In that context, I'm dumbfounded as to why we would approve a second bridge crossing that puts at risk Canadian taxpayers. The latest rumours are that the bridge is going to cost upwards of $4.8 billion. The only way we get to recoup these costs is through the tolls that are applied on this bridge. The original modelling was for the tolls to recoup the cost over a period of three decades, and that toll revenue is at risk.

My one question to Mr. Juneau, through you, Madam Chair, is this: has the authority done modelling on the new border crossing numbers in light of the second bridge crossing, and does it show that the government is still going to recoup its costs? Or does it show that the government is going to be on the hook for billions of dollars to pay for this Gordie Howe bridge?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Before Mr. Juneau answers that question, as I said earlier, the business analysis done by the previous administration, of which you were a part, sir, demonstrated that there's a need for two crossings at Windsor-Detroit to improve trade. Based on that analysis, we are proceeding with this bridge. We feel that it is necessary.

As for the owners of the Ambassador Bridge taking the federal government to court, people make decisions for various reasons, but I feel very proud that we're succeeding in winning every challenge. For every challenge that has come our way, we have won that challenge.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Minister, with respect, I agree with you that the analysis done by Wilbur Smith Associates showed that there was supposed to be a 4% increase in vehicular traffic crossing that border from the period of 2016 to 2025, but clearly the facts have changed. Clearly, traffic is down significantly even in the last year, when your government was in power, so why in September of this year the government would issue a permit for the construction of a second Ambassador Bridge that increases the capacity from four to six lanes is beyond me.

I don't understand. We're not talking about a $100-million bridge. The latest estimates are that this Gordie Howe bridge could cost $4.8 billion. This, to me, could turn into a financial burden for Canadian taxpayers, because they could be on the hook for paying billions of dollars without any revenue stream to recoup that.

The other thing I would point out, and the other thing that I'm dumbfounded about—and this is not necessarily laid at your feet, Minister—is that the Detroit International Bridge Company, now that it has the permit to proceed with the second bridge, estimates that they're going to build the whole thing for $1 billion U.S. On a Canadian dollar basis, that's about $1.3 billion.

Why can they build a bridge for about $1.3 billion Canadian dollars while we're looking at up to $4.8 billion for this Gordie Howe bridge and $4 billion plus for the Champlain Bridge? Ordinary people look at this and come to the conclusion that governments can't get things done. I empathize with that sentiment when I see these kinds of numbers vis-à-vis seeing a private corporation, which, frankly, has worked against Canadians' interests, getting this project done for a much lower cost than we seem to be able to do as government. That's the second point I'd make.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Through you, Madam Chair, I can't really comment on the cost difference. We will know what the cost of Gordie Howe International Bridge is going to be once we close the financial deal. Until then, it's mere speculation about what it's going to cost.

As far as the permitting of the Ambassador Bridge is concerned, it is given with very stringent conditions, which include the demolition of the existing bridge. There are also other conditions related to that. It's my understanding that as a government you cannot unreasonably withhold a permit from a proponent that wants to build a piece of infrastructure, and that's why this permit was granted. I can assure you that our commitment to the Gordie Howe bridge is unwavering. It is based on the business analysis that was done, and we believe in that business analysis. That's why we're proceeding with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

A few weeks ago, there was a lot of news about both the new and the old Champlain bridges. I want to ask about the new bridge. What is the government doing to ensure that the new bridge will be built on time?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Once again, I want to assure everyone that our government is taking every step to ensure that the existing bridge remains safe, and it is safe. I'm very proud of our Montreal office and how hard they're working on this. I'm also very proud of the JCCBI and how they look after this bridge.

As for making sure that the new bridge is on time, Infrastructure Canada has taken a number of steps in partnership with SSL, the project proponent. A new shift is being added. There are enhanced hours of construction being implemented. With those steps, we are very confident that we will be striving to have the bridge open by December of 2018.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

A lot is being written in the media about the state of the Champlain Bridge, which is causing concern among users.

What is Infrastructure Canada doing in the agreement to finalize the new bridge to ensure the safety of users?

I know you briefly touched on that in response to an initial question, but what concrete steps is Infrastructure Canada taking now?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

JCCBI is the organization that is responsible for the maintenance and operation of the existing bridge. We have given them the appropriate support and resources to make sure that bridge remains safe, and it is safe. There's no concern whatsoever related to that.

At the same time, we want to make sure that we build the new bridge on time. That is why I talked about us working with SSL. I'm going to ask Marc Fortin to talk in more detail about the steps that are being taken.

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

The Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Incorporated is responsible for the administration of the current Champlain Bridge. The company's business plan already contains a maintenance plan. Maintenance measures are in place, as they are every year, notwithstanding the work being done under the Champlain Bridge. The company has the necessary funding to continue its maintenance activities, while closely monitoring the current Champlain Bridge.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Merci.

Madam Chair, I'll be giving my time to my colleague Gagan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have a minute.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'll preface my comments with a thank you, because Mississauga has received $22 million from the gas tax fund for 2016-17 and 2017-18. My riding alone has received a million dollars through the clean water and waste-water fund, and there is other funding that we receive. I know that Mississauga and my riding appreciate that.

In regard to my question, I believe you referred to a re-profiling or repurposing of funds that haven't been paid out. The way I see it, this just seems like good governance. If you've allotted funds to a project and, as you referred to it, it's pay to pace, if we're measuring it over a year, that's not really an accurate measure now, is it? These things take over a year to be completed.

Could you speak to this quickly, please?

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Through you, Madam Chair, let me say that absolutely we want to make sure that we pay out invoices after reconciling the information. It takes a number of years to build a project. That's why there's always a lag time. You're absolutely right. This is a more responsible approach for us to take.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's the only question I had.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We would like to know what bridges these photos show.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

This shows the new Champlain Bridge, showing you the state of construction as it is now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

It is proceeding really....

[Kelly Gillis, Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada]

Yes, and this one shows the Gordie Howe.

[Amarjeet Sohi, Liberal, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

This shows the groundwork being done at Gordie Howe International Bridge to show our commitment that we're proceeding on that bridge too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, everybody.

I'm sorry, Mr. Aubin, but we're out of time. We have to vote on this. I'm sorry that you didn't get another opportunity.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee will now dispose of the supplementary estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2018.

Under the Minister of Transport, we have vote 1b under the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority; votes 1b, 5b, 15b, and 20b under the Department of Transport; and vote 1b under Marine Atlantic Inc. Under the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, we have votes 1b and 5b under Office of Infrastructure of Canada; and vote 1b under Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority.

Do I have unanimous consent to deal with all of the votes in one motion?