Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transport.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
I went through the type certificates with the whole history, multiple pages, and I couldn't find anything related to the pitch trim or the—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Are you aware now or were you aware at the time of certification of the 737 Max...? You're in the industry. You know that this is a new aircraft. I'm a former aviation guy. I followed it along as well. Were you aware of any concerns at the time of the manufacture and the certification? Would it concern you now to learn that perhaps there were some indicators and that perhaps there was some concern regarding the stall indicators or stall identification?
4:25 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
Personally.... Boeing is Boeing, and they've certified a lot of airplanes. There are very clear rules in Canada and in the U.S., and they are very well harmonized. You would think they would have done the classification properly, and that it would be adequate and appropriate, and so the certification carried on that way. It was only after the fact, unfortunately, that we found out that some of the due diligence wasn't done.
4:25 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
There was one engineer who said, “Are we going to allow the system to be controlled by a single sensor, which can cause catastrophic events?” I'd like to know who that guy is; he should be put in charge.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I really appreciate your testimony here today.
As many have mentioned, it is the one-year anniversary.
We also have family members present here. We have family members who are probably paying attention. The reason we're doing this is to get answers for those family members, not only of the Canadians but of those 346 lost because of the two crashes.
In your opinion, were all the checks and balances met?
4:25 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
The process works only as well as it is applied.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Right.
We've also heard that there are Boeing employees who said there were monkeys guarding the bananas. I think that was the quote. We're also hearing about “Jedi mind tricks”, which is very frustrating, obviously.
To all of our colleagues here, I would be interested, as we move through this.... I would ask, Mr. Chair—I will do this at a later date, and we've already discussed this....
Mr. Primeau and Mr. Alarie, I think your testimony today has been very in depth. As we are getting close to the end of this session, would you make yourselves available for this committee if we invite you back?
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Since there aren't too many aviation experts in the room, apart from those up front—and perhaps this isn't a fair question to the Transportation Safety Board—for me, as an individual who studied not the laws of physics but the laws of man in law school, could you comment on what has been testified to by Mr. Alarie and Monsieur Primeau?
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Without commenting on their conclusion, do you see any flaws in the process they've explained regarding how they would get to their conclusion?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
They're experts in their fields.
I think it would be totally inappropriate for me to comment on their testimony or on the reports issued by other agencies, other than to say that we are paying attention and keeping a watchful eye on it.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you so much.
Mr. Primeau, did you mention that you simulated some of the issues on a B737-300 simulator? Was that what I had heard?
4:30 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
At the beginning of my career, I was flight controls engineer and I would simulate the 737 flight controls in the simulator. That included getting all the logic and all the performance, and testing it to verify. It was my work there that allowed me to predict what the forces are on the column.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I appreciate it. Again, thank you very much for being here.
Is there an ability to have Canadian expertise or Transport Canada involved as an observer in terms of all certifications that are happening around the world, just in terms of the sheer volume that is going on?
4:30 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
I've worked with certifications in Canada and in the U.S.
In my experience, obviously the country where the airplane is being designed is the lead in certifying the airplane. I don't know exactly what the laws are, but usually the FAA and EASA are involved if it's in Canada.
There are periodic familiarizations. Those usually happen at a very high level, and Transport Canada will explain where they are in the process, what the airplane is like and so on. I think at that point they do have an opportunity to say that they've had issues with something, they're concerned about a regulation, and they want to dive into that.
That would have to be verified, but I'm pretty certain they do have an opportunity to do that. It's just not done very often because there's a really good reciprocity agreement.
4:30 p.m.
Professional Engineer, As an Individual
It's informal, I would say, rather than formal. We should formalize it, perhaps.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Fair enough.
I'll go back to the Transportation Safety Board.
You mentioned our inability to be involved in terms of the Ethiopian air tragedy with respect to treaty, and I appreciate that. If there were a similar tragedy in Canada, would the TSB refuse other foreign agencies in a similar manner? How would the TSB go about making that determination?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
The Transportation Safety Board applies the conventions under annex 13 of the International Convention on Civil Aviation. We would lead the investigation. We would involve all the other states that have a role that is formally outlined.
If another state were in our position, we'd have to look at what they could bring to the investigation team, but certainly we thrive on transparency and openness, and as long as they respect the rules of confidentiality.... We'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
This is a question that I've asked of other officials. For Canadians who are watching today, is it safe to fly in Canada?
