Transport Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Best.

Thank you, Mr. Soroka.

We're now going to move on to the next speaker. We have Mr. Rogers for the Liberal Party, for five minutes.

Mr. Rogers, the floor is yours.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses today who are here outlining the many challenges they're facing for their organizations, their membership and their employees.

I particularly want to speak to the Atlantic Canada Airports Association's Mr. Stanford and Ms. Pasher. I find myself in a very conflicted position, because back here in Newfoundland and Labrador and Atlantic Canada, many people are of the view that we should continue to be very restrictive towards allowing travel. People often complain that the only cases we see arising in Newfoundland and Labrador are from people who are travelling. As you know, of course, the Atlantic bubble has been there and it's placed many restrictions around travel through Atlantic Canada and I'm sure in some other parts of rural Canada.

The loss of regional routes and the impact on the airports like the one in Gander, and on Nav Canada, next door to me—an hour's drive away—has been very stressful. It's distressing, actually. Despite the measures we as a government have announced, we still find ourselves in a very difficult position. Like you, I want to see a resolution as quickly as possible.

I just want to give both of you an opportunity to comment on the Atlantic bubble and whether or not that's been the real reason for the successful health perspective that we share in Atlantic Canada of having very few cases.

[Derrick Stanford]

I can take this.

The Atlantic bubble served its purpose at the beginning of the pandemic when there were a lot of unknowns. What we'd be looking for now is the blending of science with precautions. We, like you, don't want to do anything that's dangerous, but as our industry falls further and further idle, the ability to restart from standing still makes it more and more difficult all the time. The notion of being able to have this size of infrastructure just remain on standby indefinitely becomes less and less of a reasonable approach to this.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I appreciate that answer, Mr. Stanford.

I'll give Ms. Pasher an opportunity to comment.

[Monette Pasher]

I think there isn't an Atlantic Canadian who wouldn't be pleased about the safety precautions that were taken. Now we're 10 months in and we have more tools in the tool box. I think we've seen Nova Scotia expand on a rapid testing strategy, and I think we need to find new ways to test, trace, repeat and do that again and again and find safe ways to restart this sector.

We need to plan for months from now to find ways to get us back up in the air. We can't just turn on a dime and flick a switch and have all of our routes come back. I think it's more about planning for the future and finding new ways to move forward. That's what we're asking of our provincial governments as well, and we're asking the federal government to support us while we get through this time of no business.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I so appreciate both of your answers on that front. I can assure you that we as Atlantic Canadian MPs are extremely concerned when we see all of these regional routes disappearing and the challenges that airports like those in Gander, Labrador, Deer Lake and on and on are facing. I really appreciate your being here today and giving me that perspective and sharing that with the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Rogers.

Are there any more questions?

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

No, I'm good with that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You have one minute left.

Maybe I'll go back to Ms. Jaczek to see if she wants to finish off her questioning with Mr. Giguere. I know he got cut off from Ms. Jaczek with the questions and answers.

Ms. Jaczek, you have the floor for about 40 seconds.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Giguere, hopefully you're connected now.

I was asking about the changes that have been proposed by Nav Canada in terms of service levels, on the issue that Mr. Best raised. From the perspective of pilots, obviously air traffic control is vital to your safe flying. Have you heard of any concerns in this regard, or are you confident that Transport Canada is going to manage the situation?

[Rob Giguere]

Obviously, Transport Canada has oversight on this issue.

As I said before, the ability to have a well-trained controller providing air traffic separation and control into an airport reduces the risk overall. It increases the efficiency of the operation, as well as reducing the carbon footprint.

Needless to say, our crews don't operate if it's not deemed safe, but other procedures and delays and so on impact the operation. Ideally, having controllers at our airports is obviously the right answer and the best risk management possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Giguere, Ms. Jaczek and Mr. Rogers.

As always, Mr. Rogers, it was nice to be part of your neighbourhood.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We're now going to move on to the Bloc Québécois for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll speak with Mr. Ferguson, the IAMAW representative.

In your presentation, you spoke about the fact that aircraft, particularly Air Canada aircraft, were being serviced abroad or parked in the desert abroad.

I don't know whether you brought this up, but I've also heard complaints from workers. For example, they said that there was a desire to convert certain aircraft to cargo aircraft, but that the contracts weren't being awarded here in Canada. Others told me about the Canada emergency wage subsidy, which wasn't being used to retain employees.

I want to know whether you believe that these factors should be considered before assistance is provided to an airline such as Air Canada. At the end of the day, our goal is to get people working here.

[Derek Ferguson]

Yes, I would certainly agree with you. Our aim is also that if there's work that should be done in Canada, our workers are skilled and able to do that work.

It was our understanding earlier that there were quite a few planes that were overseas and parked. Some of them required basic maintenance, etc. while they were parked. We feel that any of the maintenance required to put the planes back into active service should be done here in Canada. Our members have the skills.

Right now, for example, with our technical operations, there are approximately 1,200 laid off. These are members with skills. Where are they going to find a job right now that fits their skill set? We feel that the opportunity is there to service these planes and to do the maintenance for these planes in Canada. We feel that, before Air Canada is part of any subsidy or plan, any work that can be done by our members should be done here.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

In your opinion, Mr. Ferguson, has the government's amendment to the Air Canada Public Participation Act opened the door to these types of practices?

[Derek Ferguson]

Several years ago, there was the Air Canada Public Participation Act, which allowed some of that heavy maintenance to be moved offshore. That would have to be addressed through government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Ferguson.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move on to Mr. Cannings.

Mr. Cannings, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to stay with Mr. Ferguson.

We've been hearing a lot about the wage subsidy, which has been extensively used by the industry. It's really the main support that the industry has had access to. I wonder if you'd like to comment on how your members have been affected by that and whether it was used as it was meant to be used, which was to keep people working so they would continue to have their jobs and their benefits, etc. How might it have interacted with EI in those situations?

Could you comment on how you feel the wage subsidy worked and whether you would design it another way if you had the opportunity?

[Derek Ferguson]

As I stated earlier, in the beginning, the wage subsidy program was beneficial to the members, but as time went on, most of the companies did not provide the 25% top-up and they only had the active workers on the CEWS.

In our estimation, it didn't fulfill what the government's plan was at the time, which was to keep workers on the payroll and keep those employees active. After June, when there were changes to it, it seemed to become somewhat cost-inhibitive to employers. Most employers did not renew their CEWS program.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

In the interest of time, I'll stay with you, Mr. Ferguson, and ask you about the proposed sector-based benefits that are hopefully being negotiated. Do you have any further thoughts on what sorts of strings you might attach to that support in the interests of your members?

[Derek Ferguson]

As I stated earlier, this should be worker-centric. Money should not be going to the corporations for executive payments, etc. The interest here is to keep people working or get people back to work.

If I could just touch on the area you spoke about earlier, we really feel that the regional networks need to be sustained in preparation for a recovery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Cannings.

We're now going to move on to the CPC.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for tuning in today.

I would like to ask some questions of Mr. Best of the Air Traffic Control Association. As you mentioned in your opening statement, Nav Canada is currently studying the closure of seven air traffic control towers across Canada and laying off the air traffic controllers.

First off, can you give the committee an idea of what an air traffic controller actually does on a day-to-day basis to keep our skies safe?