Transport Committee on April 22nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Go ahead, Mr. Campbell.

[Glenn Campbell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Investment, Partnerships and Innovation, Office of Infrastructure of Canada]

Thank you, Deputy.

We look forward in successive years to monitor and track how the impact of the change in approach toward public infrastructure, particularly in attracting private sector capital, can promote and demonstrate the usage of alternative finance models. There is quite a range of models now being deployed in Canada in the P3 space, and then, of course, those models in which the Canada Infrastructure Bank and others are taking a new direction. I think there seems to be a lot of excitement in the Canadian market, and we really need new ways to track that impact.

I would note that Canada now is a world leader in public-private partnerships, approaching 300 active and planned projects in this space.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

I'm sure there's a lot of excitement from shareholders of multi-billion-dollar companies who now know that this government is going to give them hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate welfare, but there's certainly a lot of disappointment in the sense that there have been no projects completed under the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

I just want to drill down here, because you're talking about how the metrics have changed going forward, but the departmental plan actually looks backwards. It looks at 2017-18 and 2018-19. Surely, you should be able to tell this committee.... You may be changing the metrics going forward, but as of today, you had set yourselves the target of 250 projects with private sector investment. Surely you could give us an update today as to where you landed and how many projects you were able to achieve out of your 250-project goal.

[Kelly Gillis]

This is a target for 2021-22, which we are just beginning. We're actually in the first month of 2021-22 and looking at this particular year, and these are not actually projects regarding the Canada Infrastructure Bank. That is a separate independent Crown corporation that does its own monitoring and its own reporting. This is looking at our contribution funding when we're contributing, looking at the market overall and what we are allowing for and supporting in the market through other proponents who are the owners of the infrastructure that we will be looking at, as well as working with proponents and trying to understand the different alternative funding models that can bring projects to bear.

It is not the Canada Infrastructure Bank. This is through our funding and our programming that we're looking at and supporting.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

I totally understand that. As I mentioned, I'm looking at the department's departmental plan, looking back. I'm reading from your own departmental plan. It says, “2017-18 actual result”, and then it says, “Not available”.

Can you tell this committee how many projects this department was able to achieve towards the 250-project goal?

[Kelly Gillis]

As I mentioned, this is a new indicator that we are prospectively going to monitor going forward. We did not go backwards and look at an indicator and say, “Okay, four years ago, what happened?” It is something that we are going to be monitoring going forward.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

With all due respect, this government was formed in 2015. This is the departmental plan that set for itself the target of 250 projects. I understand that you may be changing it going forward, but you must be able to tell this committee.... I am reading from your sheet. This isn't my subjective analysis here. You have a column that says, “2017-18 actual result”. You must be able to track this. How many projects towards your own 250-project goal were you able to complete?

[Kelly Gillis]

Mr. Scheer, as I said, this is a new indicator that we will prospectively be tracking going forward. There is no requirement in these particular reports to change the indicator to go backwards and re-examine the data from several years ago to see what it would have been.

Going forward, we will be tracking and looking at what that particular indicator tells us.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left? I was going to delegate to my colleague, Michael Kram, who wanted to ask some questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Actually, you have five seconds left, so we'll stop this one in three seconds. Sorry, Andrew.

Thank you, Mr. Scheer. Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

We're now going to move on to the Liberals. I believe Ms. Jaczek is splitting her time with Mr. El-Khoury.

Ms. Jaczek, you have the floor.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair. Indeed, I will be splitting my time.

Since the subject of the Canada Infrastructure Bank has come up in the course of this afternoon, I thought members of the committee might be interested to know that at the industry, science and technology committee this morning—I am a member of that committee as well—spontaneously, a business person from Banff, Alberta, spoke about their interaction with the Canada Infrastructure Bank. Though I know it is independent from Infrastructure Canada, that business person was exceedingly complimentary as to the process and also the lack of red tape, because that's what we're studying at that particular committee. Members may want to consult Hansard to see that testimony.

My question is for Ms. Gillis.

The minister alluded to the COVID-19 resilience stream investing in areas that are traditionally provincial in scope—in other words, in schools and in long-term care to improve ventilation. Could you give us more detail on those projects, and maybe some dollar amounts? I would be particularly interested in hearing how much Ontario received through that particular stream.

[Kelly Gillis]

As the minister mentioned, when we revised the integrated bilateral agreement program last summer, we allowed for provinces and territories to take the option to transfer up to 10% of the allocation into this particular new stream.

Ontario could transfer just over $1 billion, and it has. As was announced last week, they are looking at 95 long-term care facilities, looking at ventilation and improvements to the quality of their buildings for living in the COVID context that we are in right now.

They also announced hundreds of improvements to schools across the province, again for ventilation and HVAC facilities, to the tune of about $656 million, which is quite significant. They continue to look at projects and at working with us to have investments in this area.

Traditionally we don't invest in schools, long-term care and social facilities like that, but with the context that we're living in right now, we felt that it was very important and relevant that we do something in the near term to make a difference for the environmental aspects that we're working through right now.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you so much.

I will pass the floor to Mr. El-Khoury.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. El-Khoury, the floor is yours.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with my colleague Mr. Iacono that the minister is doing a good job, and she has my full respect and appreciation. I can honestly tell you that the people of Laval are very satisfied with it. The mayor of Laval, Marc Demers, has repeatedly told my colleagues and I that he was satisfied with our government's investment, particularly in infrastructure. Again, I thank the minister for her work.

Canada has an infrastructure deficit. While our Conservative colleagues would rather make cuts, we are rethinking how we deliver infrastructure projects in this country.

Ms. Gillis, can you explain why a national infrastructure assessment is so critical at this time?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you for the question, Mr. El-Khoury.

When it comes to infrastructure, we often hear about the needs, the difference choices that have to be made, the investments and the deficits, as you just mentioned. We need to make choices when investing public funds. We also need relevant data and information to make the right decisions.

That's why the Minister has decided to launch public consultations across the country, open to all involved. The goal is to have a national dialogue to find out what the infrastructure needs are, to establish different ways of working with the various levels of government and infrastructure owners, to determine funding, and to define how to pay for the infrastructure we need.

Consultation processes like this have already been done in England and Australia. It's an important discussion that will help develop a plan to achieve the goal of net-zero emissions by 2050.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

We know that climate change is real and that it is impacting our communities from coast to coast. In my constituency of Laval—Les Îles, members of the community want clean, convenient public transit.

Can you update the committee on the steps you are taking to provide Canadians with greener public transit options?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you very much for the question.

Over a month ago, the Prime Minister announced $15 billion to be used for various transportation streams.

For example, the money will fund major projects in large cities, such as light rail and subways, which are needed to move people around and reduce automobile use. We need to make transportation accessible to people who can't have a car.

The money will also be used for projects promoting active transportation, which is transportation other than the automobile and which keeps us healthy. The investments will go into a variety of projects where health and safety are factors, and where active transportation is combined with other modes of transportation.

On the climate front, the money will be invested in zero-emissions buses. Therefore, using public transit will help reduce emissions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis. I have to move on.

Thank you, Mr. El-Khoury, and thank you, Ms. Jaczek.

Members of the committee, I was going to continue on down the list from the first round into the second round, but when I look at our timing and how we have to at least take 10 minutes to look at the main estimates and the votes attached to them, what I'm going to do is go down the list from the second round.

Mr. Iacono, I'm going to have to bump you into another section with Mr. Fillmore and proceed from there. I'm doing this in respect of time. Hopefully you don't mind. I want to get to Ms. Jaczek to give her an opportunity to speak, because she's further down on the list, as well as others who are on the list, including Mr. Barsalou-Duval and Mr. Bachrach. I hope I can get them their time as well.

What I'm going to do now is go to Mr. Barsalou-Duval for six minutes, followed by Mr. Bachrach. He will be followed by Mr. Soroka. Then we'll go over to Mr. Fillmore, and I'm asking Mr. Fillmore if he can split his time with Mr. Iacono so that we can get that satisfied. We're going to be tight on time from there.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for you, Ms. Gillis. It's about a program you announced not long ago, on April 14. You announced $1.5 billion to stimulate green construction through renovations, upgrades and new public buildings, such as libraries and community centres.

I asked one of my assistants to write to your office for details on the program, because we could not find any on the government website, but we have yet to receive a response. I find that many times programs are announced in a media release, but with no details about the programs or about how municipalities or organizations can apply.

I wonder if you could explain what this program is about. Also, in general terms, I would like to know how to go about getting information on the programs you announce.

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, it is indeed a $1.5 billion program, as you mentioned. It's a program that communities can apply for directly with Infrastructure Canada. One of the program's objectives is inclusiveness. So we're talking about investments in public buildings that people need, such as community centres, in communities where those kinds of services do not already exist.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Yes, but how does one apply?

[Kelly Gillis]

First, you have to determine where investments are needed, then make them in a way that reduces greenhouse gas emissions. In the case of new buildings, the standard applied is net-zero emissions, while for renovated buildings, the goal is to reduce their emissions, so that our buildings at least help to fight climate change.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I understand the principle behind the program, but I would actually like to know how to apply for it, if it's not posted anywhere on the government website and we don't know the criteria or how to submit an application or a project.

[Kelly Gillis]

We will forward all the necessary information directly to the committee clerk. It's public information that is on our website.