Transport Committee on April 29th, 2021

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll begin my questions with Mr. D'Angelo.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for their opening remarks and their responses to questions we've heard so far.

Mr. D'Angelo, could you spell out for the committee how serious the impacts of COVID-19 and the pandemic have been in terms of transit ridership across Canada?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Thanks for the question. It's good to see you.

In terms of ridership, at the lowest point we were down about 80%, I would say, with a mix of bus holding steady but commuter rail really seeing the biggest drop. There was a rebuilding of ridership during the summer and fall of 2020, but again, as restrictions increased during the winter and now into the spring, that's having an impact on ridership. It's going to have an impact on municipal budgets going forward.

I'll stop there in case you have another question. I don't want to take all your time.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

As a follow-up to that, the last time we spoke you were describing some of the long-term risks this presents for transit authorities, that it's not as simple as cancelling routes and laying off staff and then hiring them back and rebuilding the routes. There can be a downward spiral that can have long-term or permanent impacts on transit systems.

Could you help the committee understand what those risks look like?

[Marco D'Angelo]

One thing we've been able to avoid is a downward spiral, and that has been important. It has been by having essential workers continue to use our service.

As well, even before there was a safe restart agreement, our transit agencies across the country went out on a limb to ensure that we provided 80% to 90% of service across Canada so that our essential workers could get to appointments or work, and to avoid crowding and to exceed health protocols.

We're very proud of our record and what we did before provinces and the federal government were able to deliver the safe restart, which we're very grateful for. We knew they would come to a conclusion, but it's our mandate to make sure that we never let our citizens down, and we did not.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Obviously those safe restart funds have been critical to maintaining transit services in the face of declining ridership or lower ridership than usual. I understand that some transit authorities will see those safe restart funds running out in the not-too-distant future. How urgent is that situation, and how important is it that the federal government seriously consider allocating additional funds for transit operations?

[Marco D'Angelo]

It is very important. Last year all transit systems were in the same boat, if you will, meaning that they needed operating funding, and through safe restart there was a series of bilateral agreements between each province and the federal government. Each has a different expiration date so I think it's really incumbent on the provinces and on the federal government to work together to make sure that operational funding continues until ridership is close to, if not at, pre-pandemic levels. We're willing to reach out and work with any government, provincial or in Ottawa.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I think a lot of us were pleased to see the announcement around the permanent transit fund. That's something we have been calling for in the NDP for a long time.

We were a bit surprised that the permanent transit fund won't actually kick in until 2026. From your organization's perspective, would it be beneficial to move that date up and begin the permanent transit fund so that municipalities and transit authorities have that certainty as soon as possible?

[Marco D'Angelo]

On behalf of my members, I will say that achieving a permanent transit fund has been a goal for a long time. We're very happy we did that. I am glad there is a date in the calendar, 2026. Certainly, that is also when ICIP expires.

Where I would like to continue the work of our association is in bridging those two programs so that we can maximize building back better out of the pandemic, creating jobs for Canadians as we come out, and also increasing mobility options, respecting that the people's pocketbook coming into the pandemic will be different from what it will be as they come out. Having the right to get around your community is something we think is very important.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My last question is for Mr. D'Angelo.

Talking about the operating funding model for transit, historically transit has been funded through a combination of fare-box revenue and municipal contributions. In the pandemic, obviously federal funds have been really critical to keeping transit running.

From your perspective, is there a long-term role for the federal government in funding the operations of transit networks across Canada?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Certainly the role of the federal government in supporting capital, I think, is agreed upon. In terms of operational funding, so far our members and the federal government are, I think, aligned quite well in seeing us through COVID-19 to the end of the pandemic.

After that, I think it will be very interesting to see how transportation trends go. As for the federal government, I certainly can't commit on their part, but I know that our members, who provide transit across Canada, will be very interested in maintaining high service levels, and if that means getting help from the national government, we will look at that.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Do I have a couple more seconds, there, Mr. Chair? How am I doing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You have 10 more seconds.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You can wish us all a merry Christmas. How is that?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's a bit premature, Mr. Chair, but I like how you think.

I do have a question about what it's going to take to restore ridership, but perhaps I'll wait until the next round.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Members, we do have, online now, Réjean Porlier. Réjean is the mayor of Sept-Îles, and I would like to give him an opportunity to give his five-minute introductory remarks, and then he can jump in to answer our questions along everyone else.

Mr. Mayor, it's great to have you aboard. If you want to unmute yourself, I'll give you the floor for five minutes.

[Réjean Porlier, Mayor, City of Sept-Îles]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I apologize, we have been trying to log in for an hour.

My name is Réjean Porlier and I am the Mayor of Sept-Îles. I am also responsible for the transportation committee for the assembly of North Shore RCMs.

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to begin by thanking you for allowing me this brief statement, in which I will advocate for sustained funding to improve road and air transportation service and infrastructure in rural regions.

We must admit that we have failed in our responsibility to make dynamic use of Canada's vast territory. The concentration of populations in the major cities and the staggering investments required to constantly expand their transportation networks, at the expense of so-called remote regions such as Quebec’s North Shore, have in my view only accelerated the exodus from these regions to the major cities.

In recent years, we have witnessed a number of brazen contradictions. The first is undoubtedly the increase in the number of ever-widening highways, which spur the continued growth in the number of cars and are responsible for much of the climate change that we claim to want to combat.

Another paradox is that, while we spent tens of billions of dollars overbuilding these urban road networks, the sole road connection between Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador was never completed. Yet we wonder why people are leaving the area! I hope that, one day, I will see the completion of this critical economic corridor that will open up many communities. Imagine for a moment all the children who, for many years, have been isolated and missed many long-planned trips or who have witnessed the impacts of this isolation on their loved ones’ health. How many of them, after leaving home to complete their studies, will want to return to that isolation?

While we wait for the day when our governments will finally decide to finish Highway 138, putting an overdue end to this isolation and transforming these communities from a resilient existence to a dynamic one, our only hope is airline service worthy of the name, at an affordable cost, above all.

What exactly is the situation?

In general, air transport in Quebec is everything but efficient and accessible. It is more of a brake on development than a useful tool for outlying regions. The service does not seek to serve as many people as possible but instead to deliver the most profit for the airlines. In fact, it embodies another paradox: generous subsidies generate profits for private businesses, with little concern shown for genuine accessibility.

The situation is even worse on the Lower North Shore, where service is very poorly structured in my view. Needs should be met together to create economies of scale through the use of larger aircraft, which would lower ticket prices. Service today is so poor that tourism development in this otherwise outstanding region is impossible to envision.

The report for a study on air transportation commissioned by the assembly of North Shore RCMs entitled “Repenser la desserte aérienne de Sept-Îles et sa région,” clearly showed a need to abandon the old paradigms and find innovative solutions, such as a cooperative model in which customers become owners with an interest in the quality, reliability and accessibility of the service. This report is appended as part of a brief on the future of air transportation in the region, submitted by the City of Sept-Îles to the aviation committee struck by Quebec’s Transport Minister, François Bonnardel, in the wake of the pandemic.

In fact, an initiative employing the co-operative model—the Coopérative de transport régional du Québec, or Coop Treq—is underway in Quebec and should come into being this summer.

In short, there is no doubt in my mind that fulfilling our governments’ stated desire to make dynamic use of our region first requires completing Highway 138 to finally link Quebec with Newfoundland and Labrador. The idea of further delaying this work, which is stymying our development, is counterproductive and reveals a lack of vision. If they can't rely on the road, one village after another will disappear.

At the same time, the Canadian government should take a serious interest in the study on air transportation commissioned by the assembly of North Shore RCMs and the report produced by the Institut de recherche en économie contemporaine, which proposes innovative and promising avenues.

I have been tasked with advocating on this issue by the assembly of North Shore RCMs. I am also a member of the air transport committee of the Union of Quebec Municipalities.

I would be pleased to discuss this matter with you further.

I hope I didn't speak too quickly, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Good job, Mr. Mayor. You were just fine.

We're now going to move to our second round of speakers, starting with the Conservatives and Ms. Kusie for five minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses for being here today.

I'm going to go back to Mr. Gladu and Mr. McCoshen to pick up where my colleague left off.

I am curious as to what the timeline is for submitting the Alaska to Alberta Railway project description to the federal government and, hopefully, getting the project approved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Gentlemen.

[Sean McCoshen]

As mentioned earlier, we're looking at a late-June-to-July application going in, depending on our consultation with indigenous communities on the route. That's going to dictate, essentially, how long the process will take. I mentioned earlier that Bill C-69 was sort of designed with some advancements on the old bill, but it was also sort of designed to have meaningful consultation. That's where we're at right now, and that's driving the process. Once that's done, we're going to submit. Like I said, we're shooting for about June.

J.P., do you want to add to that? I mean, the NET team is kind of handling that more than I am.

[Jean Paul Gladu]

The indigenous engagement and consultation will play a big role. The last thing we want to do is submit and then have communities opposed to it without our taking the time and effort required to make sure that we got the buy-in that we need from our future partners.

Thank you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Excellent.

I would think that if you're going to lay down 2,000 kilometres of railway tracks, it must be very cost-effective to lay down fibre optic cables beside it. Can you please speak about the cost savings that could be had by bringing high-speed Internet access to the Yukon and Northwest Territories alongside the railway, Mr. Gladu and Mr. McCoshen?

[Sean McCoshen]

As you construct, it's very inexpensive to lay fibre optic cable. That's already in the engineering plan, so along the route we will have fibre optic capabilities, and those lines can branch out to the communities and the municipalities that are along the route.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. McCoshen, as my colleague mentioned, you've been quoted in the media as once having paid $8 for a small bag of Doritos in the north. That leads me to a couple of conclusions. First, you must really like Doritos—if you're like me, you like cool ranch. Second, the cost of groceries and food security must be a constant struggle for the people of Yukon and the Northwest Territories. Can you speak about how the Alaska to Alberta railway will improve food security in Yukon and the Northwest Territories, please?