Transport Committee on May 30th, 2022

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach, Minister.

Next we have Mr. Ellis.

Mr. Ellis the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister for being here.

As a point of clarification for the committee, air travel in Italy is really allowed for those who are fully immunized, who have a certificate of recovery from COVID and who could also have a negative COVID test. To be completely transparent, Mr. Minister, there are several ways that people, besides being fully immunized, could actually travel in Italy.

You talked, Mr. Minister, about seeing the data that would inform decision-making. You went down a bit of a different route than what my colleague, Ms. Lantsman, was actually asking. What we're curious about, sir, is understanding the data that allows you to make decisions on those folks who aren't immunized and when they can actually travel. You alluded to the fact that there is data. That's the data that we would like presented and tabled at that committee.

Would you present and table that data here at this committee, sir?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

First, Mr. Chair, my colleague talks about Italy and other countries. What the Conservatives' motion wants to do is to drop all mandates, Mr. Chair. They're not talking about making different—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Chair, I think that's not a question, but—

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

—adjustments or changing.... They are asking to drop all mandates.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

—the question was related to tabling of data, Mr. Chair. It wasn't related to Italy. Italy was a statement, not a question.

The question really is related to the data that is informing the decision this government is making with respect to travel in Canada. That's the question, Mr. Chair, I would like to have the answer to.

Will the minister be transparent and table that data with this committee, yes or no? It's simple.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, you can't make a statement and not expect me to respond to it. Having said that, I am more than happy to provide data that proves that vaccines continue to save lives, that vaccines are—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

We all know what the question is here. The question is really related to the restrictions that continue to burden Canadians, and we would like to see the data that really informs those decisions. That's what we're looking for, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Ellis, I can appreciate that. We've just had discussions, though, with our interpreters in various meetings with regard to members talking over other members. It's very difficult for them to do hear.

If you ask a question, please provide significant time for the person you're asking the question of to respond.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm more than happy to hear the answer to that particular question. That would be lovely.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, if the Conservatives are looking for data that shows how effective vaccines are at helping save lives, there's an abundance of data and I'm happy to provide it.

It is the government's policy to make decisions based on the data that proves that vaccines save lives, and to implement them. We act based on the science. The science is clear: Vaccines save lives, masks reduce transmission. The data is clear. Then it's governments who act based on that data, and I'm very happy to provide that data to the committee members and members of the House of Commons.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I'll ask one more time, Mr. Chair, if I could. What is the data that is showing that these mandates need to continue in their current form?

This is not about deaths. We totally understand that. There's no issue.

What is the data that continues to inform the decision-making with respect to continuing these punitive mandates for the approximately 5.7 million Canadians selected for special treatment?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I'm not sure how to respond to that question, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ellis said it's not about death. It is about death. It is about injury. It's about the health and safety of Canadians. As I've illustrated, there are countries around the world and provinces within Canada that still have vaccine mandates in different sectors and different segments of their economy. We are doing the best we can to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

I understand not everyone has to agree with our decision, but what we are doing is our best to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We're doing our best to protect the resilience of our supply chains.

We are constantly reassessing. We've lifted many of those measures. The existing ones are still under review every once in a while to make sure that they are appropriate.

We are guided by the desire to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

Understanding that some of the mandates have been lifted, supposedly that would be based on science. Answer yes or no.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Of course.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Therefore, the science exists, which no one has ever actually seen. That is the science with which you are making the decision. That's the science that I would love to see tabled at this committee, Mr. Chair. If we could see that science, which is informing the decision, it would be very helpful for Canadians, because then they would know what to expect in the future.

Could the minister please table that particular science, which he has alluded to?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, the science is clear that vaccines save lives and that masks reduce transmission. What a government has to do is also assess the risk.

I think my colleague is also talking about risk. We are mitigating risks to the best of our ability so that we can protect the health and safety of Canadians. Risk levels change. Data and the evolution of the virus change. We saw it when omicron hit. We had to reintroduce some public health measures that we had previously lifted.

We are constantly responding to the changing and evolving virus, Mr. Chair, but we are always guided by our desire to protect the health and safety of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Next we have Ms. Koutrakis. You have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before this committee. I know first-hand how charged your schedule has been in the last little while. I wanted to personally thank you for all your great work, and thank the department and all of the officials who are here with us today.

Minister, in your view, what is the cause for the airport delays we are seeing? We've seen a lot of comments in the media. What, in your view, is the cause for airport delays?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleague and parliamentary secretary for her excellent work.

First, let me be clear. As I said earlier, we're seeing this phenomenon across the world. We're seeing this in different airports. Just this morning, Dublin's airport had a report of a thousand passengers missing their flights. That does not mean that we shouldn't act. I'm not saying this to instill complacency. It's the opposite, but what I want to say is that this phenomenon is happening everywhere, because we're witnessing a surge of travel demand after the pandemic.

There are several causes to it. There are labour shortages, and we're acting on those. There are significant peaks and valleys with travel volume. We're seeing at certain times of the day that we have exceptionally large volumes, while at other times of the day we have certain valleys. That's why, depending on the time you're at the airport, you could get through security with no wait time at all, or a longer wait time than usual.

We're seeing scheduled flights.... With airlines, when it comes to scheduling their flights, there's massive fluidity and quick changes to flight scheduling.

Passengers need to be prepared as they are crossing the security line, and ensure that they take their fluids and their laptops out, and we're reacting to that. That's why part of our action plan is to inform travellers as they're waiting in line to make sure that they take their laptops and their fluids out.

We want to make sure that we address all aspects of the travel issues, to make sure that everyone is prepared. We're working with airlines. We've set up a working group with airports, airlines, CATSA and CBSA to address all of these bottlenecks and to make sure that we respond to this, so that passengers are able to pass through as quickly as possible.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, through you, I'd like to ask the minister his opinion, as a segue to his response. We've heard comments in previous testimony from various business groups. How much credence should Canadians give to advice provided by business groups lobbying for the ending of mandates when these groups have no public health expertise? In fact, I was the one who asked that question, and they did admit that they were not health experts. How much credence should Canadians give to this type of advice?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Look, I invite all stakeholders and all Canadians to offer their input. We take all input and feedback seriously, and then we assess the feedback and then the experts' advice and we aim to make the right decision that protects the health and safety of Canadians, but also maintains fluidity for passengers and goods. I think we just need to assess the feedback that we get based on its merit, but we welcome all input from all stakeholders.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I have one final question. I noticed that the main estimates also propose significant new funding designed to help support our airports. Can you elaborate on the goals of these programs? How are we measuring whether these goals are achieved?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

To an earlier question, I responded about the support that we've been providing to the aviation sector, including airports. At airports, I talked about two critical programs in my opening remarks, the airport critical infrastructure program and the airports capital assistance program. Both programs are meant to help support airports, particularly to cover some of the shortages in revenues during the pandemic, to build and expand their facilities, to enhance safety and to ensure that there's connectivity to mass transit in their communities. We've been providing significant investment, and we of course sign agreements with airports to ensure that those projects are delivered on time and on budget to achieve the public policy objectives they seek.