Transport Committee on May 30th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

Thank you very much, Minister.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Alghabra, in 2020, you asked the Canadian Transportation Agency to prepare an amendment to the air passenger protection regulations so passengers could be reimbursed for cancelled flights. During the pandemic, people had all kinds of problems getting refunds for cancelled flights.

When will we know the status of this amendment? When will we know if your next regulations will be effective or not?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, that's an important question.

When the passenger bill of rights was tabled in the House of Commons and passed, certainly none of us envisioned a pandemic, and the pandemic exposed that some of the provisions of those regulations did not take into account such an emergency. That's why during the pandemic we offered assistance to airlines so they could provide refunds. Now we are enhancing and improving the regulations to ensure that is taken into account moving forward.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Can you assure us that the next version of the regulations will prevent airlines from once again using loopholes to avoid refunding passengers?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, our objective is to ensure that those regulations achieve the public policy objectives, and we do our best to ensure that there are no loopholes. I would invite committee members to offer suggestions and ideas as to how to make sure we can achieve that.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Alghabra, it appears that companies under your portfolio, such as Canadian National, or CN, and Air Canada, are having a great deal of difficulty complying with the Official Languages Act and applying it as regards respect for French in their operations.

The study of Bill C‑13 is proceeding, and it could be adopted soon. Your objective with this bill is to make other organizations—not including CN and Air Canada, which are already subject to the Official Languages Act—subject to the same rules as those two companies.

Given the deplorable situation at CN and Air Canada, in what way will the application of Bill C‑13 to the remaining federal organizations improve matters? Would it not be preferable to apply the provisions of Quebec's bill 96 and bill 101?

Is there not a risk that the same situation would arise that we see now at CN and Air Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Unfortunately, we do not have enough time for the minister to answer.

Mr. Alghabra, I would ask you to kindly submit your answer to the committee in writing.

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it's been one year and three months since the tugboat Ingenika sank near Kitimat, taking the lives of Troy Pearson and Charley Cragg.

Can your department point to a single, tangible safety improvement that has been put in place to avoid similar deaths?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I will perhaps pass it on to Mr. Brosseau to respond to that question. I know we have put some measures in place.

[Kevin Brosseau, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, we have an oversight program with respect to those vessels of a particular size. The tugs on the west coast tend to be under a certain size and we have an oversight regime that has been amplified with respect to that.

Another element, of course, is being able to deploy on the west coast and have an increased presence, which is very important, as is communication with tugboat operators. Our officials are actively engaged in that work on the west coast, in particular, Mr. Chair.

Those would be tangible examples of the work we are doing with respect to ensuring the safety of tugboats.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Brosseau.

I had a conversation with a tugboat operator just recently in Prince Rupert. He pointed to something called a tug-to-tow ratio, which is an area of very specific concern for small tugs under 15 tonnes.

Are there currently any rules or legislation that are enforceable and specific concerning tug-to-tow ratios for tugboats under 15 tonnes?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Mr. Chair, I will have to get back in terms of particular rules.

I think what's really important to remember, Mr. Chair, are the safety management system regulations for all vessels, which will be coming into force in the coming months. With respect to that specific question, Mr. Chair, with your indulgence, I'll be able to respond to that by consulting the marine safety experts within Transport Canada.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The Auditor General has raised a lot of concerns regarding safety management systems in other sectors such as rail safety. How do you intend to avoid those same problems when applying safety management systems in the marine industry?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm sorry, Mr. Brosseau. Once again we're out of time. I do invite you to provide a written response following the committee.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Dowdall for five minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I just want to make a quick comment first. I was kind of disgusted to hear a committee member trying to really downplay witnesses there. I don't think that's good. I did enjoy the minister's answer, so I want to thank you for that.

I have just a couple of quick things.

Mr. Minister, did you get an opportunity to see or hear the May 16 committee when we began the study on reducing red tape?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes, I know the committee has issued a report. I can't remember if Transport Canada is issuing a response to it or not, but I got a chance to go over the report.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Good. You would know from that meeting that quite a few people were a little upset, perhaps. I know you said here that governments gave significant dollars. I hear that boasted about quite often in the House as well, but sometimes it's better to boast about results. From what I heard, a lot of the individuals here thought there were things that could be done at no cost that would probably help the aviation business.

One of the ladies was Monette Pasher of the Canadian Airports Council. She actually wrote this in the paper today: “To reduce or eliminate delays at customs, the most useful action we could take would be to remove public health measures and mandatory random testing at the airport. Around the world, 62 countries—including New Zealand, Sweden, Israel and now Austria—have already removed testing and COVID protocols. Canada must do the same” or else perhaps move it off-site.

What are your thoughts on moving it off-site? Have you heard that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

It's really important to always be challenged and always look for opportunities to improve efficiency. We also need to be reminded and remind ourselves that some of these measures, as cumbersome as they may seem, are important to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We want to always assess and reassess the application of those rules.

To answer your question directly, at Transport Canada we are looking at ways to work with airports to move testing off-site. We're looking at that, but let me remind everyone, we are going through a pandemic and we are seeing at lot of—

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Yes, we know, Mr. Minister.

I have just one more question, but I don't have much time here.

Your predecessor stated that airlines need to treat passengers like people, not numbers. Under your watch, government agencies have authored the worst passenger rights violations in Canadian history: it takes passengers hours to get through security, infants are trapped in airplanes for hours after these land and stay in customs halls. Travellers are being detained and delayed, and it is unacceptable.

Have you written to the CTA to have them investigate these gross violations? Have you asked your department to draft a standard of care and obligations for PHAC, CBSA and CATSA?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, let me repeat my understanding and empathy for those who have been waiting in lines at airports. This is something that needs to be responded to. I've made it clear in every conversation I have had with CATSA, with airports and with airlines that this is something that needs to be addressed, and we are offering resources—

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Will there be a standard of care?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

—guidance and support every way we can.

Having said that, I want to remind everyone that we are still in a pandemic. We're seeing delays across not just airports around the world, but across all sectors of the economy. This is the aftermath of the challenges that the pandemic has posed for our economy—

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Will there be a standard of care, Mr. Minister?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

—and having said that, we need to react. We need to be supportive. We need to do everything we can to address these challenges, and we are doing so, Mr. Chair.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Okay.

One other problem we had and where there are a lot of issues is the carbon tax and the extra cost that it has on fuel.

Is the government looking at anything to help in that way?