Transport Committee on June 16th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Wonderful. Thank you very much, colleagues.

We'll turn it over to Monsieur Barsalou-Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The last time we met, I didn't get the opportunity to introduce my motion, because we had spent time on committee business. I actually had two of them, but some members may be relieved to know that one of them likely won't be needed.

The motion I wish to put forward reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), an order of the committee be issued for a copy of all relevant documents relating to federal-provincial bilateral agreements on infrastructure, including the 2018 Canada – Quebec Integrated Bilateral Agreement for the Investing In Canada Infrastructure Program; That these documents include, but are not limited to: (i) all communications, including letters, e‑mails, text messages and messages on internal messaging software (Skype, Teams, Messenger, etc.), between the offices of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance, and with the governments of Quebec, the provinces and territories; (ii) all communications, including letters, e‑mails, text messages and messages on internal messaging software (Skype, Teams, Messenger, etc.), between the office of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities and Infrastructure Canada officials and the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat; (iii) all communications, including letters, e‑mails, text messages and messages on internal messaging software (Skype, Teams, Messenger, etc.), between Infrastructure Canada officials and the Intergovernmental Affairs Secretariat; (iv) documents that track or show changes and differences in bilateral agreements between the federal government, Quebec, the provinces and territories; (v) all versions of the terms and conditions of the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program, the Gas Tax Fund (now the Community-Building Fund), the Community-Building Fund, the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund and the 2014 New Building Canada Fund, along with the dates for which said versions were in effect, as well as Treasury Board submissions for the approval of the aforementioned program terms and conditions; (vi) the final records of meetings of the management committees, management sub-committee and monitoring committee for the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program, the Gas Tax Fund (Community-Building Fund), the Community-Building Fund, the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund and the 2014 New Building Canada Fund; (vii) the final and administrative versions of amendments signed by Quebec, the provinces and territories; (viii) relevant notes, documents and memos; and That these documents be provided to the committee in unredacted form within 30 calendar days of the adoption of this order.

Mr. Chair, I don't know if I need to read the entire text of the amendment, since everyone has received a copy. I could go on, but I think everyone understood what I was talking about. The intent of this motion is indeed that the documents be provided to the committee in unredacted form within 30 calendar days of the adoption of this order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Ms. Koutrakis, you have the floor.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colleagues, I will not be supporting this motion. I really do not think it's necessary.

When Minister LeBlanc appeared before the committee during the meeting on main estimates on Monday, May 30, the minister was asked this question by my colleague, Mr. Barsalou-Duval, to which the minister answered very clearly:

[T]he Minister of Finance has already decided that the provinces that received funding through programs created under federal-provincial agreements, such as a Canada-Quebec or Canada-New Brunswick agreement, must commit the funds to projects by March 31. The funds do not necessarily have to be spent, but the federal government, and...the Quebec government must agree on a list of projects to receive federal funding.

The projects can be spread out over a number of years, and the funds can be disbursed over a period of 10 years after the deadline. If the federal government cannot agree with the Quebec government or New Brunswick government on the list of projects, however, the funds will be recovered by the receiver general of Canada....

[W]e have the same agreement with 10 provincial governments and three territorial governments. A number of them have chosen projects and allocated funding more quickly than Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec and New Brunswick.

The Minister of Finance decided...that it would be in the interest of Canada's economy and environment to allocate those funds to projects as quickly as possible.... [T]hat does not mean that the projects will be completed, but a choice has to be made.

Minister LeBlanc also said:

The Minister of Finance is anxious to see these funds allocated to projects. Some premiers, however, including the Ontario premier, are asking me for a 2.0 version of these programs.

My job is to work with all the provinces to determine what a second version of these programs might be.

The minister continues to collaborate with provinces and territories “to determine more specifically how this second version can offer a solution that is in the interests of both Quebec and the federal government.”

In conclusion, again, I will not be supporting this motion, but I would be curious to hear how other members feel about it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

Ms. Lantsman, go ahead.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We'd be inclined to support the motion on the basis that we can have a couple of changes. If we all agreed to have it as “all federal-provincial agreements on infrastructure” and then change the date to “January 1, 2016”, we would be prepared to support my colleague's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lantsman.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I will respond to Ms. Lantsman first.

As I understand it, her proposal has already been incorporated into the new version of the motion that I put forward. The proposal is included in the motion that is before committee members. I had already made the adjustment, unless other adjustments are in order. However, I feel that it's consistent with Ms. Lantsman's wishes.

With respect to the points Ms. Koutrakis made, I would like to say that we had passed a motion to invite the minister to appear before the committee by June 20. Today is June 20 and the minister has yet to appear. I think we need to get that information so that we know how decisions are made. I hope that the minister will eventually appear before the committee to explain to us how decisions are made and how bilateral agreements with the provinces can be unilaterally changed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Mr. Angus, go ahead.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

It's an honour to be at the committee with my colleagues.

As a member of the opposition, I love documents. I can't get enough documents.

My concern with this is that it seems to be a huge expedition to turn over a whole whack of documents that may or may not be related in any way to the work of this committee, and within 30 calendar days. I just don't think it's reasonable. I think we could be more focused in our work, so I would just suggest that we put it to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

Seeing no other hands up, I will ask the clerk to go to a recorded division.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

The motion does not carry.

Mr. Chahal, you had your hand up.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I move to adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Is there any objection?

Seeing none, this meeting is now adjourned.