Transport Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2022

[Louise Yako]

As Jean said, one of the things we recommended was that the CTA be given greater authority and longer timelines for investigation, and we identified very specific data that we thought might be helpful.

At the same time, we recognize that there's a potential for unintended consequences. It is something that I think needs to be followed. As that recommendation is implemented, assuming it is implemented, it will need to be reviewed again to ensure that there is sufficient authority and there are sufficient data requirements.

I see Jean wants to say something here.

[Jean Gattuso]

I would add, for our discussion, that rail is also a North American activity. We spent a week in Washington, and we looked at some of the practices of the Surface Transportation Board. That's also in our report.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You're at exactly five minutes and two seconds, Mr. Strahl. Thank you very much.

I will now go to Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Iacono, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Gattuso, to make the job easier for new drivers, what do you think about establishing less onerous requirements for issuing licences or certifications for commercial truck drivers who drive only short distances?

[Jean Gattuso]

I don't operate a transport company. You can read the results of our research in our report. We would agree with that recommendation ourselves if the industry thinks it would enable them to recruit more drivers. The objective is to hire more drivers in order to offer more services. I would be in favour of that recommendation, but I would want to get the opinion of the industry stakeholders about it.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

You said earlier that we need more immigrants. Knowing that Quebec is pulling the rug out from under us by significantly limiting the number of immigrants it accepts, how can we address the labour shortage?

[Jean Gattuso]

I won't answer on behalf of Quebec; I am not its premier.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm asking you the question because you are very familiar with Quebec. You are a Quebecker, you speak French very well, so you are well aware of the situation that Canada, Quebec and the other provinces are in. I'm asking you this question so you can give us some guidance.

[Jean Gattuso]

My parents arrived from Italy, as did yours, I assume. They were hired by Canadian Pacific. They disembarked at Ellis Island, in New York City.

I won't take a position regarding Quebec. The government has its policies. I am not in the government. I think we need immigrants to continue growing the country and to be a major player in the world. As we said when we began our presentation, trade represents 61% of Canada's GDP. If we don't have people to do the work, we will not be recognized as good suppliers by our customers at home and abroad.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You know that training and skills development are traditionally under provincial jurisdiction, although the federal government has played a much more proactive role recently.

How important is it for the different levels of government and the provinces to work together to address labour shortages in the transportation sector?

Have you observed that the governments do not work together as well as they could? If so, can you tell us more about that?

[Jean Gattuso]

If the governments worked together well, there would undoubtedly be no labour shortage.

The governments have to look at the labour shortage as a national problem. It isn't solely a provincial problem. We have to find ways together to ensure Canada's prosperity and the efficiency of the supply chain.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

How long do you think there has been a labour shortage?

[Jean Gattuso]

The labour shortage started to be felt in 2015. The demographic curves have shown the aging of the population since 1997. Looking at those curves, we could have predicted that it was coming and understood that immigration would not be sufficient to solve the shortage. We could also have looked at the figures on Canada's economic growth in 1997. There are things that could have been predicted based on that.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Gattuso, I see that you are very conversant with this issue. We are not asking you to engage in politicking, but as a witness on the outside, you have a very clear understanding of the problem.

Our objective is to listen to witnesses like you and write a report at the end of our study. What can you recommend to us? You have mentioned a few things. Are there other aspects that have not been addressed to which you would like to draw our attention, to provide guidance for our work?

Is there a rabbit in the hat?

[Jean Gattuso]

We spent 100 days thinking about solutions, and labour was a major issue. We spoke with different stakeholders. We need to get and train immigrants in the short term. We can talk about automation, but right now, in the short term, we need immigrants and temporary workers, and we need to train them and find them places to stay.

That's what we should focus on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono and Mr. Gattuso.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The conversation we just heard was interesting. If I may, I am going to make a few comments, although I only have two and a half minutes.

First, I want to say that my wife is from an immigrant background and one of my children belongs to a visible minority. I completely recognize the contribution that immigration makes. However, Quebec must have control of its policies in order to ensure the survival of French. That is very important to the ability to transmit our culture. It is why I stand up for our public policies in Quebec and for our distinctiveness.

With that said, there is something the federal government could improve: the processing of immigration applications.

Did people tell you that the long processing times for immigration applications were a problem? I am talking about both temporary worker applications and other categories of workers. An employer can hire a worker and follow the process, but processing times may be so long that it discourages people. Employers are losing workers because of that.

Should the federal government be more efficient in how it processes immigration applications?

[Jean Gattuso]

Yes, especially in the case of applications by temporary workers who are needed for the harvest. The farmers we met with told us about the long processing times for those applications. So yes, the efficiency with which applications from workers in that sector are processed needs to be improved.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am going to continue along the same line.

In the 1980s, people often said that immigrants were going to steal our jobs. Today, we tend to say the opposite, that we need immigrants to meet workforce needs.

A question arises, however. In the 1980s, the reply was that immigrants were not stealing anyone's job since they created their own jobs. Today, immigrants are still creating their own jobs, or at least additional demand.

What are we going to do, to solve the problem arising from our growing need to rely on immigration?

[Jean Gattuso]

We need skilled people, but we also need unskilled people we can train.

Take the agri-food sector. If a person works in the slaughterhouse at Olymel, for example, their skills in other areas are not being developed as well. That is an important factor to take into consideration. As I said, we need both skilled and unskilled people.

As I said earlier, 100 years ago when my grandfather and my father arrived from Italy, Canadian Pacific gave them a ticket and told them it was hiring Italians in Montreal to shovel snow. They were not asked...

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Gattuso.

Unfortunately, time is up.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One issue we saw during the pandemic in northwest B.C. was a number of sawmills curtailing their production because they couldn't find railcars to ship their product. I notice that the report talks about private sector entities working in a competitive environment not always creating outcomes that are in the national best interest.

In light of the recommendations around the CTA's playing a more proactive role, would that be a possible solution to instances where you have companies struggling to get transportation to get their product to market?

[Louise Yako]

We heard there was a lack of data visibility. Projections in terms of demand for transportation services are not as well known as they could and should be. That's something we've not talked to committee about.

I'm not sure I'm answering your question directly, Mr. Bachrach, but if we had better data visibility, so that we had improved transportation services demand projections, then that would give CTA ammunition, information, that it could use to help ensure that there were sufficient services, sufficient cars, for northwest B.C. companies.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In reading through the report, the sense I take away is that the task force envisions a more proactive, interventionist role for the government and agencies like the CTA, to ensure that the supply chain as a whole is more efficient and delivers on the national interest.

Is that a fair characterization?