Transport Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Nav Canada is coming in the second half of this meeting, but let me say that, typically, U.S. navigators would also raise awareness of the NOTAM to any flights prior to entering Canadian space. That is the way our system operates. Canadian air traffic controllers would notify flights of any NOTAM issued by the U.S., and vice versa.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Our next five minutes go to Mr. Muys.

Mr. Muys, the floor is yours.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We know that economic sanctions are an important part of the response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Maybe you can speak to the sanctions that are under the domain of your department in terms of shipping, ports and airspace.

Is there a dollar estimate of the economic impact in the short term and long term? Do you feel that the sanctions are enough and that they're working?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

This is an important question. In my opening remarks, I highlighted the range of measures that Transport Canada has put in place, from banning Russian and Belarusian aircraft operators and owned flights from entering Canadian airspace, to banning Russian-owned and -flagged vessels from entering Canadian waters.

This is part and parcel of a comprehensive sanction plan that Canada has imposed on Russia in response to its unprovoked attack. It has been done in consultation and discussion with our allies. Canada is seen to be taking a global leadership role in imposing these measures. We are doing this, not only because it will have a significant economic impact on Russia, but because it's the moral and right thing to do.

We lead with that as we are still studying and measuring the impact that it's having on Russia. We know that it is the moral, right thing to do, and that it will have an impact, particularly when coordinated with allies.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

There's no specific dollar value in terms of economic impact in the short or medium term that you're aware of at this point or that you want to speak to.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

It's evolving. I can't give you a number that I am not 100% sure of, because it's evolving and changing.

If you look at the overall measures, they have had a crippling impact on the Russian economy. We're seeing the ruble in significant decline and we're seeing economic activities facing significant barriers, so we know that, overall, these measures are having a real impact on the Russian economy.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Let's switch to Canadian shipping. In the Black Sea, Russia's shown a disregard for international shipping, and the NATO Shipping Centre has warned that there's a high risk of collateral damage to civilian shipping in the northwest part of the Black Sea. There have been a couple of instances of shipping from NATO countries, one being the Estonian-owned cargo ship that was sunk off the coast of Odessa in early March, as well as the bomb that hit the Turkish-owned ship off the coast of Odessa at a similar time.

Have Canadian commercial shipping interests been directed to avoid the northwest portion of the Black Sea?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

We are sharing the information that we have with operators. We had a session at the International Maritime Organization Council, at which we called for the establishment of a safe maritime corridor to allow for the evacuation of merchant ships and seafarers from the conflict area, and we asked the Secretary-General of the IMO to collaborate with relevant parties and experts to support the implementation of these corridors.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Currently are you aware of any Canadian shipping taking place in that portion of the Black Sea?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I'll ask my colleague Julie Gascon to respond to that question.

We're having an audio issue.

[Michael Keenan, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

I apologize. The director general of marine safety and security is having an audio problem, but I think what she would have said is the following: Throughout this crisis, Transport Canada has been in close contact with Canadian shipping companies that operate internationally and has been advising them, on an almost-regular basis, on the threat environment. There have been some Canadian companies that have actually been in Russian ports during this crisis, not in the Black Sea but in other Russian ports, and we've been encouraging them to be vigilant and to limit their exposure to Russian ports as much as possible and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Keenan.

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Next we have Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Rogers, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, once again, Minister, here with us today in our transport committee.

Minister, we all understand, of course, the gravity of the situation in Ukraine and the dire consequences for the people living there. Certainly we understand the necessity of taking action, as we have, in the transport sector, and of course the potential impact of the supply chain on the economy. When I look at the shipping industry and the importance to our economy and to coastlines in the north and east and west, there are many ports that rely on shipping of course, and obviously everyone would be impacted by the ban.

How do we plan to enforce this ban, and will the Coast Guard be deployed in the event of an incursion?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thanks to my colleague. It's good to see him again.

When the enforcement was approved by Global Affairs Canada, the actions to monitor and enforce these measures were to be dealt with or managed on a case-by-case basis. Partners, such as the Canadian Coast Guard, are certainly instrumental in managing the enforcement, but each case is assessed on its own merit, and the response will be driven by the assessment.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Minister, we heard, of course, that in the airline sector there was a problem. Are you aware of any incursions since the ban came into force in the marine sector, and if so, how many and how did Transport Canada respond?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

There has been no incursion since the order came into effect.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Minister, when I think about the many ports that surround Newfoundland and Labrador, Atlantic Canada and the eastern seaboard, and the number of ships that we see travelling through major ports such as Halifax, St. John's and other ports in Atlantic Canada, I think about a company back in Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, in my riding, Icewater Seafoods. It, for example, banned the import of Russian cod and does not permit ships to deliver that kind of product to supply an important food source, which has created more than 200 jobs in this small facility. How do you see this kind of ban further impacting fish companies and other kinds of companies in Atlantic Canada?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

As I stated earlier, these actions were necessary and are still necessary in response to the unprovoked aggression by Russia. These actions and these measures are driven by doing the right thing: the right thing morally and the right thing economically.

Of course, we are assessing and monitoring the potential impact that it may have on our supply chains and our industries here at home. We will continue to work with partners on assessing that impact, but I can tell you that I have not had any stakeholder or any private business come and say that these measures are unnecessary. There are obviously always sensitivities to ensuring that our supply chains are maintained, but everyone understands the imperatives behind these measures.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Yes, Minister, I totally agree, of course, on the importance of these measures.

Minister, have similar bans ever been implemented before by Transport Canada? If so, when, and under what circumstances?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Could we have a very short answer, please, Minister?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know that in 2007 we had similar bans against Burma.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.

Thank you very much, Minister.

We now go to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, in your answer to my last question, you said that you weren't able to tell me whether any [Technical difficulty—Editor] strategic [Technical difficulty—Editor].

How does saying that attacks occurred jeopardize national security?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I'm sorry. Part of the interpretation was cut off, Mr. Chair, but let me try to respond.

I said that had there been any serious attack worthy of reporting to the public that we would and will be reporting it. It is really important to remain vigilant and prudent and prepared.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you for that answer. Things are much clearer now.

My next question has to do with the north and Canada's territories. The governments of all three territories have said they are worried that any potential Russian attack against Canada would involve the Arctic. They are worried about Canada's level of preparedness and want to meet with Prime Minister Trudeau. They also want the issue on the agenda for the Council of the Federation meeting.

How does your government respond to those concerns and requests?