Veterans Affairs Committee on April 3rd, 2008

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

I cannot provide specific information with respect to services offered to veterans. When you compare Quebec to other Canadian provinces, psychologists in Quebec are far better integrated within public health care networks and schools.

The two departments—the Department of Health and Social Services and the Department of Education—have hired and continue to hire a large number of psychologists, many more than is the case in other provinces. As I stated earlier, there is a high penetration of psychologists within the entire health care network in Quebec. We are proud of this. It certainly is a model, but the culture is different in other provinces and it is difficult to compare. With respect to veterans, unfortunately, I cannot specifically answer your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

We'll now go to the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Gaudet, you have five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be splitting my time with my colleague so that he can ask other questions.

I've noticed two things. First of all, veterans have never contacted the Ordre des psychologues du Québec. True or false?

[Gilles A. Perron]

And vice versa.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

And vice versa.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

To our knowledge.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

We have already met with physicians from Valcartier who have appeared before the committee. Do you believe that psychologists who work in the schools would be able to help veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress? It's a simple question.

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

Probably not right away.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

That answers my question.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

In the schools, do you mean...

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

Do you mean educational psychologists?

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

No, they would not be qualified for that at all.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The two physicians from Valcartier who came before the committee said that there are not enough psychologists in Valcartier. So not only are there not enough in Valcartier, but it would appear that this is the case everywhere, because everyone is complaining.

That answers both my questions.

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

However, we could flesh out our answer, if you don't mind.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

In Quebec, psychologists who work in schools with children are not clinical psychologists who are qualified to treat cases of depression or PTSD.

Clinical psychologists who work in hospitals, medical clinics or in private practise may have the training required to treat PTSD. In Quebec, we have Mr. Stéphane Guay and his trainees, as well as Ms. Brillon.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

That's only four.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

How many psychologists, out of the 2,300 who are qualified to treat PTSD, are familiar with the military culture? We don't know. We have given you the names of Mr. Guay and Ms. Brillon, but that doesn't mean that they are they are the only ones. It is just that they are well known because they are leaders in this field. They are the ones who will train future psychologists. That is what I recommend that you study. If access to services is a problem, ask them what we can do to attract psychologists, whether it be at the Valcartier base or Ste. Anne's Hospital.

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

There are psychologists who work in your institutions. There are five in Canada. There are also 900 psychologists who work in private practice and who offer services to the Department of Veterans Affairs. They are paid by a third-party payer, Blue Cross. You probably know this already.

Psychologists in private practice should perhaps be specifically targeted to receive ongoing training in order to develop their skills and acquire new ones. As for psychologists who work in institutions, they are permanent salaried employees. In the Quebec city area, there is a pool of psychologists. We need to recruit people who are not working or who are about to leave their jobs to take another one. This is perhaps more difficult to do.

We need to make this clientele more visible and educate psychologists. We focus a lot on basic training, raising awareness at the university level, practical training as part of internships, but also on research. This whole sector needs to be developed, and this could be a very interesting option for the Department of Veterans Affairs.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you. My colleague will continue.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I am going to answer Mr. Roger Valley. Ms. Gough, who appeared before the committee on Tuesday, is a psychologist who married a military serviceman. She is an exception, because I do not think that there are many Canadian or Quebec psychologists who have military experience. They represent less than 1%.

Ms. Lemieux this question is for you. You may take all the time you need to answer.

When I refer to veterans, I refer to the treatment of post-traumatic stress, psychological treatment offered to spouses, children, firemen, policemen, all people who are much more likely to suffer such stress. The important thing is to find a way of improving your existing network of psychologists and to train others. You have a great many psychologists to train.

It's your turn to speak, because my time has run out.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

I didn't quite catch your question.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We need psychologists. How will you train them to ensure that they can help policemen, firemen, military serving members and their spouses? How will you increase the number of psychologists available? Psychologists make up approximately 0.01% of the Quebec population. Since there are some 7 million inhabitants in Quebec, that is only one psychologist for every 7,000 people.

I would like to hear your comments on that.

[Marie-Josée Lemieux]

Mr. Beaulieu will answer you.

[Stéphane Beaulieu]

My answer goes back to what we said earlier. There is basic training and ongoing training. However, I am under the impression that the clinics in Quebec, especially the one in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, are well staffed in terms of professionals. They already have an acceptable number of psychologists. The Department of Veterans Affairs adequately subsidizes this provision of services. According to what I have been told, as demand increases in Quebec, services are made available and staff is hired. These services are not only available to the client, but also to his or her family and relatives.

You referred to firemen and policemen. These services are tailored to their needs, that is, people who have suffered trauma, regardless of the environment. In this respect, Quebec is very well equipped: 1,900 psychologists provide services related to post-traumatic stress. Of course, there are different kinds of post-traumatic stress, as undergone by members of the military and police officers, respectively. For victims of car accidents or street assault, the CSST, the SAAQ and VCI, as third-party payers, pay the psychologists who provide services to this clientele. The array of services available is quite broad.

We're talking about military culture. As I said earlier, it would perhaps be a good idea to establish dialogue and provide more information about this clientele. I think that the department has been doing so for the past 20 years, but there is still work to be done. In my opinion, psychologists in Quebec are prepared to do more. The role of the Ordre des psychologues, however, is nonetheless limited. Under our mandate, we can grant licences, oversee the practise of the profession and the skills of our members and take disciplinary measures. But we should not be expected to overstep the boundaries of our mandate.

I think that we are a major player in the field of psychology in Quebec. We can convey messages and facilitate the process of raising awareness about this clientele. In that regard, if we can help you out, we will be happy to do so.