Veterans Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

Now we're on our second round of rotation, which means each member has five minutes.

We're over to the Liberal Party of Canada and Mr. Valley. You have five minutes, sir.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you for coming today and helping us understand a system that's so different from ours.

I want to get right to a couple of questions. You mentioned there was a new law brought in in 2007, and if I heard you correctly, it has to do with some of the changing realities, the new challenges we face, the many conflicts, and some different aspects. We hear this over and over again from our own forces and from other forces. We've asked questions of the Australians and the Americans. The conflicts have changed and we're facing things that we never faced before, plus we're starting to understand the mental health side. As you said before, it wasn't socially acceptable in the past, but for whatever reason, it's a new reality for us.

One of the challenges we have here is that as we try to cover off the mental health issues, we're short of health professionals. We're short inside the military; we're short in the public sector. We hear over and over again that people who need service are having to wait longer times for it. When they leave the service, there's sometimes a total break, which is not acceptable and we're trying to correct it. I'm just wondering--and if I said anything wrong about the 2007 law, correct me--what access people in the service have. When they leave the service, is there timely access to mental health services? Are there enough providers?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

In cases of PTSD or in the case of someone suffering from a severe injury, as I mentioned before, they're looked after as long as this lasts. This is the only exception to the other timelines I mentioned before. We have this law now that says the forces have to employ those soldiers as long as they want to stay. So they have full professional status, as I have.

On your second point, sir, we are paying our medical personnel better than regular, normal soldiers. For example, if we want to have doctors or specialists, we pay for their whole university. We pay for them as long as it takes to become a doctor or a nurse, and we pay this totally in advance. Because they are trained on the civil side, we pay this, and in addition to that, they start with a full salary. And after they have become doctors--for example, if they earn the rank of captain or major--they always get the next highest payment. So if they are a major, they will get the pay of a lieutenant-colonel. So we make sure that our doctors are paid adequately so we will not lose them to the civil side. This is one of the things we're doing.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

We have somewhat similar programs. The problem we run into in Canada is that as they become more and more experienced, their value increases, and the private sector in Canada--and I presume in Germany--pays much higher than the military does, so we constantly have a bleed. As we bring them through and train them, and as their skills develop, and as their time in service goes by, they leave for the private sector.

Another thing that happens is that we lose all our professionals to the large urban centres. In a country as wide and diverse as Canada, we have no one serving in our small areas, or very few services are available. They migrate out of the military because their earning power is greater in the private sector. Plus, they migrate to the large cities, which is not always where their service is needed.

I'm just wondering if it's similar for you. Do you have the same challenges in trying to keep them in the military when the private sector pays more?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

For example, for doctors, they have a contract to serve for a minimum of 16 years. If they kick out before or break off with us, they have to pay all the money back that we invested in them for their university and for them to become a specialized doctor--for example, someone who does heart surgery or something else. This is what is in their contract. The minimum time before they can get out of the army is 16 years, and then they can say, okay, I'm looking for a second career, and they have the chance to do so because they are well specialized and well trained to do so.

Afterwards, if someone is getting out, we always have someone as a backup who then can fill their shoes.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

My last question is this, and again, we have different systems, so I'm not sure I can explain it correctly. When our individuals leave the uniform behind and they transition to private life, we have a real problem with the records following them. They basically sometimes have no records following them, so they have a break in their medical history and a break in their medical service, which really creates a problem.

I gather that's not a problem at all in your service. Everything is seamless when they transfer to the private sector?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

No, sir, this is not the case. As I told you, there is always somebody behind them as backup. When the doctor is doing his university studies, he finishes his doctor's degree, and then he needs a phase of a couple of years to gain experience.

While he is gaining experience he always has a mentor. This mentor has already become a specialist, and he is trained by this specialist. This specialist is, for example, a doctor in a rank of full colonel or general who has the status of professor or doctor. He has done a second specialized training.

Those guys are making the big money, as we say, because they are also allowed to treat civilians, and they have to pay for this. We have a lot of specialists within the forces, so we always have a system to guarantee that we do not run out of doctors.

But to be honest, in some cases when we're going on missions we're looking for specialists--for example, those who do surgeries. We are now extending our missions. We now have four PRTs in Kunduz. Every PRT has to be equipped with a professional doctor who is a physician, who is able to act there. We are running short of them too, so that means we concentrate.... We shut down four hospitals with those specially trained doctors, and then everybody has to be driven, for example, even if it's in a northern or southern part of Germany, in the area of Cologne and the mid-west part of Germany.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[Le président, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Gaudet, from the Bloc Québécois, you have five minutes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In Canada, we have a Veterans Charter since 2006 and an ombudsman since 2007. The charter was created for veterans of the war of 1939-1945.

What services do you provide to Second World War veterans? At the present time, there are some 200,000 veterans from the war of 1939-1945. What services are you providing to your former soldiers? I know that you do not call them veterans in your country.

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Thank you very much, sir, for this question.

I can't agree to the number you said. I don't know the exact number. I'm sorry about this.

The thing is that we have a law for those war veterans coming from the Second World War. This law guarantees them a pension while they are wounded or handicapped. But under normal circumstances, a lot of them who came back from the war were able to find good jobs to make their way through, so they now belong to the same social system as everybody in Germany does.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Okay. I want to know whether there are specialized hospitals for them. In Canada, we have three such hospitals: one in Quebec, one in Ottawa and another elsewhere. Do they receive specific care? If not, do you have long-term care centres from some of these former soldiers? What additional services do they receive, as compared to current soldiers?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

No, we don't have those services; we don't have those hospitals. We think everything is covered with our system that I described before. Even if they are no longer in the services, they have access to all public health systems. They can go there, they can be treated there, and they can be helped there.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Here is my last question.

Let us suppose that a young 24-year old, married and with two children, is doing is nine months long military service. If he suffers a rather serious injury while on duty and has to have one of his leg amputated, who will take care of this soldier and his family? Will it be the insurance company, the government or the Department of Veterans?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

In the case where he becomes injured—for example, he is wounded and can no longer fill his job as he has lost an arm, leg, or something else—he receives a pension. That means between 66% and 75% of his last income, and he will get this money for his whole life. This is paid by the forces; that means it is paid by the government.

For the children, for example, the costs that are needed for the school system are going to be paid, but only up to a certain amount of time. But we are also—and I want to make this clear—we are going to look into whether his woman is able to work. It is not our way for women to say they stick to their job or they stick to the family, because society has changed a little bit and we are also forcing the woman to work. If she does not, we start to cut down the pensions after a number of years.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Reibold.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

Now we are over to the Conservative Party of Canada, and Mr. Shipley, for five minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Colonel, for coming. It was good to talk to you earlier also. I don't have a lot of questions.

When someone is in the armed forces and they go out of it and turn to private life, just for clarification, are there any services or benefits that are carried on to them once they leave the military? I think I heard that there isn't and they then make money of their own and they buy their own health insurance. Is that correct?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Yes, sir, this is correct. We will continue as long as it is needed to help the soldier recover from a wound or something else he incurred while serving on duty, or if his time is finished. We will do this up to three years after his service ends. Once he has recovered, he is to look for his own contract with health insurance outside. The health insurance must take him, because it's written in law. So his whole life is covered for all those things.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

The health insurance must take him. Who sets the rate he pays, though?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Those rates are made by the government, and they depend on your age and your state of health.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

So if you had a mental illness—for example, PTSD—and you were not able to carry on a full-time job, the premiums would be higher but the compensation would be higher?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

Yes, that's the point. The insurance company has to take you.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

You talked about the pensions: 60% for as long as it's needed and then I think 30% for children, offspring, for as long as they need it. How is that determined? Who makes that judgment for how long it's needed?

[LCol Matthias Reibold]

It's pretty simple. For example, if the wife is a widow and she gets married again, then this man has to take care of her and he makes a certain amount of money, and depending on the new husband's income, the pension is cut down.

In the case where the children are orphaned, they are entitled until they reach the age of 18. We pay 30% up to the age of 18, when they can look after themselves and go to work.