Evidence of meeting #22 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veterans.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

James Gilbert  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Communications and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs
John D. Larlee  Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
Suzanne Tining  Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much, Ms. Tining.

Now we'll go to Ms. Adams for four minutes.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Eve Adams Conservative Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Tining, our prime focus here, as committee members, is to ensure that our veterans receive the services and the benefits to which they're entitled. Can you walk me through, from the veterans' perspective, what improvements they would see if they were to put in an application for the first time now, under the new cutting-red-tape initiative for our veterans?

5 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs

Suzanne Tining

The first thing they will see on the website, even before sending in their applications, is a very clear view of what benefits are available to them, depending on if they are Canadian Forces members, traditional war veterans, or merchant navy. That's the first window.

Then, we have simplified the application process, and we are working on the re-engineering of what we do at the departmental level once we receive the application. So we have a simplified application process, and decisions are made faster.

On disability benefits, for example, we have reduced by one-third the time it takes to get a decision. The veteran will not see it, but we are a department that is very dependent on paper because we deal with military records, health records, libraries and archives, and DND. We have started to digitize the information so that all of our employees have it online at the same time. Since August, we have digitized over 1.2 million documents. That reduces the time our employees need in order to make a decision.

So from a veteran's perspective, simpler, faster, and more clearly articulated decisions. That, in a nutshell, would be what the veterans would see.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Eve Adams Conservative Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Ms. Tining, how do you extend the benefit of the doubt to the veteran?

5 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs

Suzanne Tining

The benefit of the doubt is enshrined in legislation, which is—unless there is any contradictory evidence—that the benefit of the doubt will be in favour of the veteran.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Eve Adams Conservative Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Okay. Then once they are through the process at Veterans Affairs, if veterans feel as though they haven't received the decision that they deserve, they can then appeal to this arm's-length body, VRAB, which is set up completely separate from the department. It's fully arm's length. Basically, we have folks serving on that committee who have medical backgrounds, some have military backgrounds, and a number of different backgrounds. Could you please explain to me what the process looks like for the veteran, and how the benefit of the doubt is extended to the veteran once they've gone through VRAB?

5 p.m.

Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board

John D. Larlee

Well, at the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, it's correct that we are arm's length. We report to the House of Commons through the minister, and we are a quasi-judicial tribunal.

We are there to serve the veterans. And the veterans, if they are not satisfied with the decision they receive at the department, have the opportunity to only be dissatisfied and be eligible to make an application to come before our board. Now, that does not mean they may not have been in receipt of some benefits from the department. They could very well have received some benefits. But all they need to do is be dissatisfied in the sense that they did not receive all the benefits they requested. They therefore can come to our board for a review hearing.

That review hearing, of course, is heard by two members. On the principle of benefit of the doubt, the benefit of doubt applies in every case. Even if two members cannot agree on granting the request that's made by the veteran, the decision most favourable to the veteran is the decision of the panel. That's in the legislation.

Now, with respect to benefit of the doubt, it's a legal principle—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Eve Adams Conservative Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

So you don't need a majority of the panel to agree. As long as there's one dissenting voice, whichever voice, it results in the best benefit for the veteran.

5:05 p.m.

Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board

John D. Larlee

Yes; at review, where there's a two-member panel, that's correct.

The benefit of the doubt is a legal principle. It's been in effect for many years. It's a legal concept that's been discussed with lawyers, but it's embedded in the legislation. We have it in section 39 of our Veterans Review and Appeal Board Act.

If I can take a few moments, I can go through all the elements of it. I can also give you some examples, which I think, for the benefit of new members—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Eve Adams Conservative Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

The chair always cuts us off.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Well, we're quite a bit over the time.

I'd suggest that we would like to get that in writing, if you do get a chance to detail it.

I know you were concerned you weren't going to get a question today, so welcome to the rounds.

5:05 p.m.

Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board

John D. Larlee

Most certainly, I can provide that.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much.

Mr. Stoffer, for four minutes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Madame Tining, you are very careful. You said that veterans, “if” they qualify, get benefits.

Here's a list of four names of people who did not qualify: Sarah Atwood, 90 years old, denied a bed at Camp Hill; Ted Shiner, 90 years old, denied VIP service; David Kurts, 87, two years fighting for various benefits, denied benefits; and Art Humphreys, before he died at 87, denied a lift for his home.

Those are four veterans of World War II and Korea who were denied benefits. They didn't qualify. There are literally thousands of veterans out there who do not qualify for benefits.

So to say that you're going to streamline the process and give them an answer quicker, in most veterans' ears, when they hear that, they're going to hear the answer “No” quicker than the other thing.

When I bring up cases to the minister in this regard, that they get a serious review by the minister, just like Steve Dornan's case in the Annapolis Valley did.

My question for Mr. Larlee is the following. Harold Leduc, one of your board members, said very clearly that in tracking favourable decisions, the board began measuring the number of times panel members were involved in decisions that came down on the side of former soldiers.

It says here:

The slicing and dicing of those statistics had far-reaching implications and is one of the tools board chair John Larlee and his deputy used to lean on members perceived as overly-generous, says long-standing member Harold Leduc.

He's a veteran and he serves on the veterans review board. These are pretty serious accusations he's made publicly, twice, in the media.

My question to you is, quite clearly, sir, is he true? Did you or any members of your board lean on people like Mr. Leduc in terms of his overgenerous decisions when it came to veterans' appeals? Or is Mr. Leduc wrong?

5:05 p.m.

Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board

John D. Larlee

Mr. Chairman, I'd first of all like to state that I'm not prepared to speak to individual cases at the board, or matters that deal with individuals' privacy.

I'd like to say to Mr. Stoffer that at the board, and across the board, one of the basic tenets in an independent administrative tribunal is that he who hears, decides. That is something on which our members are given detailed training, as soon as they arrive at the board to receive their extensive training program. We also conduct applications of training in the law to make sure that we maintain consistency throughout this country with respect to our granting of decisions. Therefore, in order to achieve that, we have our extensive initial training program for all members when they arrive, as well as continuing training. As well, we conduct performance assessments and performance reviews on a yearly basis, where all aspects of the cases are reviewed and looked at.

Colleagues on the board, who are all independent professionals, benefit from the fact that we have people with military and police backgrounds on the board. They can discuss with their colleagues the very things that veterans feel are very important to them, being their culture and how they wish to be treated. We at the board maintain that we want to provide veterans with a very effective, efficient, and fair hearing—and that's what we do. We conduct hearings, and all our members are very professional and conduct them in that manner.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

We're over the four minutes.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

That's fine.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

I understand we're going to Mr. Strahl.

Welcome to the committee today. You have four minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I come from the riding of Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, which has a very large and active veterans community. A lot of them did their basic training at CFB Chilliwack and served on the base there. Once you've been to Chilliwack it keeps calling you home, so a lot of them came after their retirement to settle in Chilliwack.

I want to talk specifically about the community war memorials program. I see that there's an additional $1.5 million set aside for that. I'm wondering if you can share with the committee the number of memorials that were renovated or built in the past year, and talk about funding and how that will continue to flow. Maybe if you have time, just talk about the decision-making process for choosing them. I'm sure it's an oversubscribed program.

5:10 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs

Suzanne Tining

Go ahead, James.

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Communications and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs

James Gilbert

Thank you for that.

The community war memorials program is a large part of our remembrance programming and is very important to communities. So for that program, in terms of the decision-making, the application goes in, and Canada Remembers staff across the country work with the organizations that are putting forward applications to make it an easier process for them going forward. Because of the sensitivity of a lot of these projects moving forward, we want to ease the pain of the bureaucracy as they're dealing with that.

The committee will have a look at that. There are clear criteria for what fits and what doesn't fit. Generally, if it fits the criteria, is within the amount, and the matched funds are there, the committee will make a recommendation. Then, depending on the amount, it is approved by me or Minister Blaney. Then Minister Blaney contacts the recipients, thanking them for their important contributions to remembrance.

The program is one of the tools we have to keep the remembrance of soldiers and veterans alive.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC

How many projects did you work on last year, in terms of renovations or new memorials? Do you have that information?

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Communications and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs

James Gilbert

I have it to provide it to you. I just don't have it handy at my fingertips right now. I'll get it to you, if not by the end of the meeting, then shortly.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC

Okay. Great.

5:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Communications and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs

James Gilbert

Oh, wait one second.