Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 15th, 2012

[Ronald Griffis]

That's correct.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Could you tell us briefly how the needs of the RCMP might differ somewhat from the needs of our veterans?

[Ronald Griffis]

The needs from the RCMP are not enshrined in the Veterans Affairs Canada contract that they have. They're not entitled to full benefits under the VAC. Their contract calls for a very small portion of what they can be entitled to.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

You are referring to those that were established when they first joined the RCMP.

[Ronald Griffis]

Pardon?

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

You mean those that are established under the RCMP.

[Ronald Griffis]

Yes.

The thing is, they never talk about benefits and Veterans Affairs Canada until it's a requirement by reason of something that's happened.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Could you take a moment to explain why it's important that our government appointed the first RCMP member to VRAB, and how that experience helped members of the RCMP?

[Ronald Griffis]

Once again, the RCMP organization is reflected by the military organization. They don't trust the VRAB. They've heard so many bad things about the Veterans Review and Appeal Board that they would much rather just sit at home and say "I'm not doing that. I'm not going through the hoops. They're not going to make me do that, and I'll do without before I have to go through that."

It's one of those things that the reputation of the VRAB—and I mentioned this to Mr. Larlee—requires attention. It may not be the worst, yet, and it may not be the best, but it can be.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Do you think it's helpful, though, in terms of building some confidence into the decision-making and the process at VRAB that our government appointed the first RCMP member to the board?

[Ronald Griffis]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe the spouse of an RCMP member was appointed a long time ago.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

You mean a family member.

[Ronald Griffis]

Yes.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

This is an actual RCMP officer, though.

[Ronald Griffis]

I—

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

You indicated, though, and we've questioned previous witnesses on this issue, that the Canadian armed forces members on the Veterans Review and Appeal Board bring their military background to the board's decision-making, and we've appointed a number of members with military backgrounds. Can you tell me what the government should be looking for when it makes appointments?

I want to reiterate that both you and Mr. Kovacs indicated that you want VRAB to continue. You're looking, though, to suggest improvements to the board's composition and process.

[Ronald Griffis]

One of the things that really bothered me when I attended hearings at the VRAB is that there are two adjudicators. One of the adjudicators does 98% of the work and the other adjudicator does nothing, so I would suggest that if you appointed a member of the military to the VRAB and you had a single adjudicator—as in a great many adjudications across Canada—you would see the judgments markedly different.

Right now you have to convince two people that what you're asking for is reasonable, bearing in mind that only one has asked all the questions. Then they go back and make a telephone call to a doctor, a psychiatrist, or whomever, and ask, "This is what I heard today; can you help me out?"

We don't have the opportunity to do that, but if you had one adjudicator, it would be that much better, and if that adjudicator had a military background—or a law background, or a police background—you would see the judgments change overnight.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Ms. Adams.

Now we're on to Mr. Casey for four minutes, please.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Griffis, did I hear you say in your introduction that you have 22 years' experience in the judiciary?

[Ronald Griffis]

Yes, sir, 22 years.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay.

You also referred to a letter from Mr. Larlee that caused you some concern with respect to access to witnesses and evidence outside the hearing room. You said the letter was dated last month?

[Ronald Griffis]

No, it was September 2011.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay. Would you please provide a copy of that letter to the committee?

[Ronald Griffis]

Sure.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

Sir, I share your concern with respect to a decision being made based on evidence that isn't presented to the tribunal. You raised this in the context of the letter that was provided by Mr. Larlee, but you've also indicated that you spent some time at Veterans Review and Appeal Board hearings. Have you seen it in practice?