Veterans Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2015

[John Desrosiers]

The department is aware. We continue to work through the embassy in Ankara to help facilitate discussions with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Turkish government. We will continue to facilitate those discussions and hopefully will have a favourable outcome in the near future.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Very good.

Well, on behalf of all of us here, thank you, General Rohmer and staff at DVA. I hope you have a wonderful commemorative event, and thank you for everything you've done.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

It will be less because you won't be there.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

No, unfortunately. Well, we would get into some trouble, I can assure you, General Rohmer. Last time with Cliff Chadderton and the boys we got into a lot of trouble. But it was a lot of fun. It's a tremendous event. My mom's still alive, although she has Alzheimer's. If she were here right now, she'd give you a big hug.

Thank you very much, and I wish all of you the very best.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Mr. Lizon, go ahead.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you to all of you for coming.

General Rohmer, thank you for your great service. I didn't realize your presentation was 22 minutes. The chair didn't tell us. I grew up listening to war stories, and I can listen to them for hours, and I believe every single word you said, including how tall you are. However, I find it hard to believe—and you repeated it more than once—that you don't make any decisions. To me, a general not making decisions is quite odd, but if that's what you said—

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

You have to believe me. I'm not part Polish, but you have to believe me anyway.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

That's what I was going to mention. Peter Stoffer is originally from Holland. I was born and grew up in Poland, with the tradition of the 1st Polish Armoured Division that was part of the First Canadian Army, and of course, the paratroopers of General Sosabowski and Operation Market Garden. Still, when it comes up in discussion, especially Arnhem, it does bring up emotions and heated discussion, but this is something that should be dealt with by historians.

But, General, I had a chance, and Laurie Hawn did as well, to march with the Canadian army in the Nijmegen marches. I did it twice, last year and the year before, and of course on March 3, there is a wonderful commemoration ceremony at Groesbeek cemetery. I had the chance to go there and lay a wreath and walk between the graves, look at names. There were so many young people, very young people. Some of them probably lied about their age.

General, if I may ask, there is a list of all the celebrations, I don't know, but the commemoration of the VE Day victory on May—

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

May 5.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

On May 8 or 9, there will be one main celebration in Europe. I don't know where because Putin wants to do it in Moscow. Some leaders agree that they're not going to go to Moscow. Is there one planned where our government and Veteran Affairs will participate? I know there will be celebrations here in Canada, but what about in Europe?

[John Desrosiers]

From a Veterans Affairs Canada perspective, there is no plan to participate in any Victory of Europe Day on May 8 in Europe. We will concentrate on an event here at the National War Memorial in Ottawa, where we expect upwards of 200 Second World War veterans will attend. Our focus at this point is really the liberation of the Netherlands from May 1 to May 10, and working with the Dutch very closely in terms of their thematics. They want to have commemoration on May 3, 4, and 5, and after May 5 it becomes more of a celebration as we lead into May 9, and it will be the final farewell of Canada's veterans in Holland.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

The second question I have has to do with the Canadian participation in and contribution to the Second World War effort. It's not very well known and it is underestimated. If you look at the facts, on a per capita basis, Canada had, I think, one of the largest armies among the Allies. I think the only matching army would be the Soviet, . and maybe the British. Others that participated had on a percentage basis much smaller armies. Poland had about 600,000, maybe 700,000. To match the Canadian contribution, they would have had to have about three and a half million in their army, and they didn't.

What are the plans? What are we doing to actually make sure that people, first of all, know about our contribution to the war efforts, and they know the facts? There is a proper approach to it. We were not somewhere at a table with everybody.... We were there as a main force to defeat Hitler.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Let me try to answer that.

I think that what we do, through Veterans Affairs and the great celebrations on D-Day in Holland and elsewhere, gives us a chance to really tell the story to the best of our ability. A good friend of mine is a fellow called Peter Mansbridge. Mansbridge of CBC was with us, for example, in Normandy in June, and right across Canada, and he covered us very well indeed. To tell the people of Canada about these things is the most important element of getting the message across, because we have so many new people in our country from all over the world, including Poland, and to get them familiar with the background of 70 years ago is extremely important. That is being done, and Peter will be there in Holland with us again. That is the kind of thing that I think is very important. It's the best way. If you want to do as the United States, that's a different matter. They...well, never mind.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Francis, it's your turn.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, everyone, for appearing before us today.

As a prelude to my question, I just want to say that, while I don't have any military pedigree in me whatsoever, I have been introduced to it all since becoming a member of Parliament. Not many people know this, but when I bought this old home in Guelph, which of course is the home of John McCrae, I found out that Admiral Sir Charles Kingsmill, the first admiral of the Canadian navy, was raised in the home in which I live.

When I found that out, I started to renovate the home, trying to restore it, and then worked closely with two navy veterans, David Birtwistle and John Newstead—John has passed away now—to commemorate the home in some way. It wasn't until that effort that I really began to appreciate the value of commemoration. We bought two large stones. I got permission from the Canadian navy to put two plaques on it, one commemorating the first home of Admiral Sir Charles Kingsmill, and the second, the 100th anniversary of the Canadian navy.

You remember that in 2010 we had this massive flag with Charles Kingsmill's picture on it. I was able to get one of those flags and hang it. We had a wonderful ceremony on July 3, 2010, on my front lawn—just for the record, at my own expense—with tents and all the colours and the bugles. We marched, and the navy was there. We spliced the brace with real rum. We did the whole thing. I'll tell you, it was so moving. What was really interesting is that, the day before, the granddaughter of Charles Kingsmill came to my home. She had never been to the home. She was born after Charles died. When I met her, I brought her into the home. It was her first time in the home. We were crying. It was just such an emotional experience.

However, I was never more moved than I was last year when Julian Fantino was gracious enough to invite me to accompany him to the remembrance trails in France and Belgium. We walked all the paths, and we went to the monuments and the gravesites. We stood in Essex Farm Cemetery, where John McCrae wrote In Flanders Fields. While I was there, you could hear a pin drop. There were some young adults from Canada travelling the same trail, and it was quiet. They were sitting at the foot of the plaque commemorating John McCrae. One by one, three stood and recited the poem by John McCrae, and that was all you could hear through this whole cemetery. It was so moving. I don't think I have ever been more moved.

What I realized when I was over there is how much our presence in Europe is woven into the cultural fabric of France and Belgium, where I was. I can't speak for the other countries. We are very much part of their everyday conversation and to this day very present in their lives.

Having said that, my question is this. While I was over there, I noticed a lot of Canadian students working for us at all of these different sites, and my thought was that I didn't have the opportunity to appreciate Canada's military history, but I want my children to be able to. Can you tell us more about the opportunities that exist for our youth to go to Europe and work, what the conditions are like, and how long they might work there at all of our commemorative sites? I am wondering if anyone would have any information on that.

[John Desrosiers]

I can perhaps speak quite briefly, particularly on our Vimy site. We have a student guide program, it's a university age-based program, through FSWEP. the federal student work experience program. Students identify their intentions through FSWEP. We have a quarterly update. They go for three months, live in the quarters in Arras, just outside Vimy.

They certainly become the Canadian ambassadors in northern France. They become very familiar with both Vimy and Beaumont Hamel. They take on that role as a student guide, both in English and in French. It's managed by our European operations. We have a team on site at Vimy. It's a continual intake of students.

In addition to the Veterans Affairs Canada program, Juno Beach Centre has an exchange program where they bring students from Canada, and they act through the guide program as well. I don't have as much detail on their uptake and how quickly they turn the students around.

Those are the two programs I'm currently familiar with in engaging students. If I may take this opportunity, certainly from the Veterans Affairs Canada perspective, it's very important to pass the torch of remembrance to students, both from learning materials, and as you mentioned earlier, awareness.

Any time we do an overseas program we have in-house educators that develop a teachers' curriculum that we promote in the school system. In the lead-up to any anniversary, we have that material flowing into the schools.

In addition, we're very fortunate that we have a number of battlefield tour companies in Canada that offer students an opportunity.

We know in the Netherlands upwards of 1,000 Canadian students will be walking and attending the same ceremonies that we'll be at. We make it a priority to integrate them into the programs: recite a commitment to remember; lay a wreath on behalf of youth. It's our way of ensuring that the youth come back. Through the use of social media, now with Twitter or a Facebook page, engaging one youth means engaging 10, and so on.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

When I was over there, I met a number of people at museums who were trying to commemorate Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae in a more meaningful way. They were looking for some connection with Canada. I introduced them to the principal of John McCrae Public School in Guelph to have an opportunity to have an exchange between students, through email, letters, whatever, so they could connect with one another and exchange ideas.

I'm just wondering what effort might be undertaken in a more meaningful way through the department to align other schools, say in France and Belgium, with public schools in Guelph and elsewhere that want to share their experiences, not their memories so much, of what they see in Europe, so our Canadian students can gain a better appreciation of our efforts there.

[John Desrosiers]

Entering the school curriculum is always a difficult challenge for the Government of Canada, in the sense that education is a provincial element. Certainly when we receive several requests similar to that, we facilitate those opportunities.

We work with Canadian schools and Canadian organizations looking to those exchanges. Through some of our funding programs, we have some examples of where we have made the link between both Canadians and students abroad.

With the use of Skype and other technologies, I think those exchanges are easily facilitated now. I'm aware of a twinning program going on right now with a number of schools in France and a number of schools in the Ontario Peel region.

It's getting out there. I wouldn't say Veterans Affairs Canada is a driving force in making those connections, but we would certainly facilitate and put schools together, if possible.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Could you send us the information on that exchange, so we might take it home to our ridings and encourage our school boards?

[John Desrosiers]

Absolutely.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you very much.

If you have a quick question at the very end, I'm sure the committee may indulge you.

Now, folks, we go to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Pierre Lemieux, for seven minutes.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

First of all, thank you very much for your presentation. Certainly our actions in the Netherlands were critical moments in Canada's history.

General, I certainly appreciated your recounting of some of the things that went on there. I must give all credit to the battery commander, destroying bridges with artillery from 14 miles away even though they're eight-inch shells. That's quite a feat because artillery, especially in World War II, was not known to be particularly accurate. To take out a bridge is quite a feat.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

It was quite a feat.