Veterans Affairs Committee on April 23rd, 2015

[Tim Patriquin]

Treble Victor was not.

[Phil Ralph]

No, we were not.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Phil Ralph]

We've been at previous stakeholder meetings with the minister. We were at the one they held in Toronto at the RCMI, so we've had our input there. We can't be at all of them.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

No, I understand that. I assume you were invited.

I wanted to talk about the importance of those kinds of meetings. I'm sorry you weren't there, because I wanted to ask some specific questions about the experience last week in terms of the collaboration among organizations.

I guess I'll ask a general question, probably of Ralph and Mr. Ludlow. In those kinds of summits in terms of getting the various organizations together, as I think Mr. Lizon mentioned, people are doing different things. Each of your silos is a good silo, but to promote a broader understanding so that there can be areas of cooperation moving forward, how important are those kinds of get-togethers?

[Phil Ralph]

It's important to know the landscape and to know what's out there. It's a good question. It's been alluded to a number of times concerning cooperation and overlap, etc.

I think there's a kind of a myth that there is a whole bunch of overlap. The things we do are unique, and when we don't have a resource that addresses the particular need of a veteran who comes to us, rather than reinventing the wheel, knowing what's out there, there is cooperation in that area in regard to referring him to an organization that does have the resource.

Cooperation doesn't mean melding all the organizations together and making one big bureaucracy, because we know what happens with bureaucracies sometimes. Our funding and our programs are unique and very targeted. The landscape of what Treble Victor Group does is very different from what we do, so if we have a veteran who is in need of their services, instead of saying that we have to keep him and do it ourselves, we say, “Here you go.”

That's the level of cooperation, knowing what's out there, knowing the resources, doing what's best for the veteran and for their family, and using the available resources. If it's our program, wonderful. If it's somebody else's, fantastic.

[Tim Patriquin]

I think it's important to note that there are several buckets, if you will, of stakeholders. I think the minister had three. I think our organizations fall into the third. That summit was only for the first two buckets, so it's not like we're being excluded.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

No, I understand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hawn.

Mr. Lemieux, you have at most three minutes.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Do you see the discrimination?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

He picks on me. It's all the time.

First of all, I want to thank you for coming here today. It's very educational for us as committee members to plug into you directly and to hear what you're doing on the ground to support veterans, and also, I think, to help Canadians support veterans. I think Canadians want to support veterans. They sometimes don't know how to go about it or what organizations are active, so your outreach is really important.

I wanted to ask Wounded Warriors about your program, the Can Praxis PTSD equine program. I had somebody ask me about it just this week. The person was a potential service provider, someone who said that they had heard about it. They obviously had read an article in the paper about equine therapy for veterans.

I wanted to ask you a little about the program, particularly, though, in terms of access. How would a veteran access the program? How would veterans find out where it's offered and how would they get access?

The second thing is that if there's a service provider, an equine organization or a farm with horses that are trained for therapy, etc., how would they let you know that they are available to assist with this program?

[Phil Ralph]

Boy, you opened up a huge question, but I'll try to answer it within the time limit of the chair.

First of all, any veteran anywhere in Canada can access Can Praxis. They can contact us, or they can contact the individuals at Can Praxis directly. Again, we'll provide transportation. Currently, the program takes place at Rocky Mountain House in Alberta. There will be two serials run in Ontario this summer and fall. The only reason we move it is, again, to cut down on plane fare and those kinds of things to save money.

The difficulty with many of these programs is about standards and about making sure of and maintaining quality. Having a ranch and having a horse does not make a program. It's having the right combination and having it evidence-based.

Our program has been studied by Dr. Randy Duncan at the University of Saskatchewan, so it has been academically studied. There has been one pilot project studied by Veterans Affairs Canada. It's very unique. I mean, there's a lot of equine therapy that's out there and does some good things in many areas, but this one for veterans and their spouses is very specific and has some very specific things in it.

It's more the people that run the program than the horses and the ranch where it's held.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I actually think horses are very noble and very majestic animals and I think there is a bonding that takes place. My daughters used to ride, and I know the kind of relationship that can form.

Are you standing? Is it over? I'm sorry. I saw you look that way.

I'll stop there, Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

You're so kind, Mr. Lemieux.

I want to thank the witnesses from Treble Victor Group and Wounded Warriors Canada. I was both touched and inspired by what I heard, and I think my colleagues will feel the same and appreciate what they have learned from you.

Thank you for your services to Canada and for what you continue to do.

We will now suspend the meeting so that these people can go and all hug you.

We will suspend two minutes, no more, because we need to listen to our ombudsman, Mr. Parent, right after.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The second half of today's meeting offers a few complications. Since I'm the servant of the committee I'd like to put them on the table right now.

As you notice from over here, it took more than two minutes to do the transition. Then at the end, the committee will need 15 minutes to deal with the other matter I referred to earlier, and we might also need about five minutes to discuss committee business for next week.

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Chair, I think we should just go with the plan, which is to leave 15 minutes at the end of the meeting to go over committee business. I don't think we can extend the meeting because a lot of us have commitments and we simply can't stay later. I would say, let's just launch and partition off 15 minutes at the end of the meeting where we'll deal with committee business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I want to draw to the attention of the committee that Mr. Lemieux is now the poster boy for someone who doesn't pay attention to the chair.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Go ahead, Mr. Parent.

Thank you for all you do, all you've done and all you will do.

[Guy Parent, Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman]

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you.

Before we begin, I would like to thank you for your unwavering support of veterans and their families. The recent announcements by the Minister of Veterans Affairs are narrowing the gap in areas of the new veterans charter that you identified in your June 2014 report, “The New Veterans Charter: Moving Forward”.

The announced changes do not encompass all that is needed for veterans but they have kick-started the renewal process, and your leadership played a big part in making that happen. As veterans ombudsman, I thank you and look forward to continued progress.

I have read all of the testimony to date from your hearings on the transition of our servicemen and women from military to civilian life. I find most of it focused on individual services and programs. While that is important, I believe that it is of equal importance for you to look at transition from a holistic, veteran-centric and strategic perspective.

The complexity and confusion of the transition process, accessibility to programs and services, and the eligibility requirements are evident in the testimony to date. In order to make meaningful recommendations we need to understand the transition process, issues, and requirements. This is why my office has joined together with the office of the ombudsman of National Defence and Canadian Forces to identify the hurdles experienced by our medically releasing CAF members and to suggest some solutions.

As I see it, a key transition issue that has been overlooked by almost everyone is the impact of military culture and ethos. From the time a young man or woman joins the Canadian Armed Forces, everything is mission-oriented. Every detail of his or her life is looked after in order to accomplish the mission.

Our servicemen and women are known for their can-do attitude, for making the impossible possible, and for protecting the weak and the vulnerable. We need to make the transition process mission-oriented and CAF should provide ongoing support to members throughout the transition process. That will give our releasing members a positive, focused experience that will generate hope.

Our joint systemic review began in early 2014 as a result of the well-documented need to ensure that the transition process be as seamless as possible. The goal of this joint effort is to identify and recommend ways to streamline processes and support services for transitioning members and their families.

During the initial phase of our review, we mapped the transition process and experience of medically releasing a regular force member from the time a permanent medical category is assigned until the member is integrated into Veterans Affairs Canada. In the course of this work, over 50 recommendations and responses from recent House of Commons, Senate, and Auditor General reports have been reviewed.

There are five core issues to a seamless transition that our team has noted to date: governance, program-centric service delivery, financial aspects, families, and communication.

Within governance there is no integrated CAF-Veterans Affairs Canada accountability framework with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. We have two departments supporting transition with each operating within their own accountability framework. This results in duplication of effort, gaps, and inconsistencies across groups and geographic regions. There is no single, central tracking, monitoring, or follow-up system for all medically releasing CAF members. There are no integrated CAF-VAC service delivery standards to measure successful transition outcomes or criteria to evaluate the transition process.

For program-centric service delivery, the programs and services for medically releasing servicemen and women need to be veteran-centric. At the moment they are not. There are some specific areas of concern. Within the CAF-VAC there are at least 15 key organizations, each with their own business process, often delivering transition services in silos.

Currently both CAF and VAC case managers work independently with no formal coordination or monitoring. Resource constraints, including the number of available CAF and VAC case managers, result in interview delays and inconsistent service standards across the country. Today approximately 10% of all medically releasing members are deemed to be complex cases and receive an integrated transition plan.

All medically releasing members should have the opportunity to plan and coordinate their transition.

There are two primary vocational rehabilitation programs: service income security insurance plan, SISIP, and VAC's rehabilitation program. Each program has different eligibility criteria, different assessment requirements, and different benefits. A third-party review is needed to make an informed decision prior to any changes.

VAC must be engaged earlier in the transition process to ensure benefits and services are in place at release. Currently, VAC's initial engagement begins with the transition interview after receipt of the release message, generally within six months of the release date. That is too late.

Available services at the joint personnel support unit and integrated personnel support centres are not consistent across the country, and the partners are not always co-located under one roof to provide the veteran-centric, one-stop shop. Importantly, only those medically releasing CAF members with significant medical employment limitations are posted to the JPSUs.

Individual consent is a barrier to seamless transition as consent is required from each service provider to share information. Without it the service provider cannot share information, nor engage in substantive discussion about transition needs.

Concerning the financial aspect, the 2013 “Life After Service” study identified that those who had a medical release experienced a 20% decline in post-release income. This stresses the importance of ensuring benefits and services are in place at the time of release to alleviate the financial strain for vulnerable CAF members and their families. The current 16-week delay of the Canadian Forces first pension payment is problematic, as many CAF members do not have sufficient financial resources available to compensate for that delay.

Now, let's turn to support for families. Transition services and programs are not easily available or accessible to spouses and children. If spouses work outside the home or have childcare responsibilities, they may not be available during regular work hours to participate in the integrated transition plan interview.

Relative to communication, as others appearing before you have also emphasized, the volume of information a member receives during transition is currently overwhelming and may contribute to what is already a stressful and confusing situation for an injured member who may not be leaving the forces voluntarily.

There is currently no single point of contact or face-to-face navigator to advise, assist, and monitor the development and implementation of a transition plan. Some CAF members are not aware of the IPSCs and services offered, while others are still reluctant to access them. Unfortunately, as attendance at the SCAN program is not mandatory and occurs late in the release process, members may not be well prepared for their transition.

In conclusion, a successful transition for a medically releasing serviceman or woman is key to financial independence, quality of personal and family life, and improved health.

The goal of our joint project is to build on the mission-oriented military culture and ethos, and work toward ensuring that through clear communications and an integrated approach transition, services and benefits will be ready at the time of release.

I hope that our final product will be as useful to you and the veterans community as was my 2013 report on the new veterans charter. I believe that with a focused effort, leadership, and vision, we can create a world-class transition experience to integrate medically releasing personnel, veterans, and their families into civilian life. They have so much to offer Canadian employers due to the skills, experience, leadership, and personal attributes they acquired through their military service. Investing in their successful transition is not only good for veterans and their families, it is also good for business and good for Canada's economic prosperity.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank you kindly, Mr. Parent.

I'd like to apologize to the committee. I forgot to introduce Sharon Squire.

You are also welcome at this table.

If you liked the six-minute rule we had during the first half, you're going to love this one. For this session it's going to be five minutes. You want to share it with your friend...?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

With Monsieur Chicoine....

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

With Monsieur Chicoine...? Share away.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

First of all, Mr. Parent, I want to thank you and your staff for your great work when it comes to our veterans and their families and communities. You really are doing fantastic work and we greatly appreciate all of that.

I understand you'll be going over to the Netherlands very soon with a delegation. Please give the old home country our very best. One veteran you'll be meeting is Jock McStay. He's from Chezzetcook, Nova Scotia. Give him my very best as well.

Thank you.

Sylvain.