Evidence of meeting #46 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was remembrance.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sonia Gallo  Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board
Michael Blais  President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
Bradley K. White  Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
William Maxwell  Senior Program Officer, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Jean-Rodrigue Paré  Committee Researcher

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Thank you, Chair. I want to thank our witnesses for being here.

Certainly I support the good intentions of the bill. I want to clear up some confusion, though. The law does not identify it as a lesser holiday. It was a witness who said that, and somehow it has taken on a life of its own and is being quoted as “Remembrance Day is a lesser holiday”. It is not a lesser holiday. It is simply termed differently from a statutory holiday, but that doesn't make it any less. I think we should be dropping that word “lesser”, because it was brought into the discussion by a witness who came before the heritage committee.

The second thing is that while I support the intention—I think it's a noble intention that we honour those who have fought and given their lives in the defence of Canada and Canada's freedoms—I don't think I'm going to be the first to say that tremendous confusion surrounds this bill. You hear it here today. I've read through all the transcripts and followed Mr. Harris' speech. Even Mr. Harris at the beginning—11 times in his opening speech in the House—called it a “statutory holiday”.

So there is tremendous confusion, and while we're trying to sort out the confusion here amongst MPs, imagine Canadians who are not following the debate closely and not listening to the interpretation and the clarifications. It is confusing what Canadians will think when it's raised to a legal holiday but not a statutory holiday. There's a lot of confusion here.

It has been implied that it is a day off. That's the implication, and I think it's what most Canadians are expecting when they look at this bill. They'd have to follow exactly what's going on to think differently.

I have another concern, and that is about the competing interests on what would be a statutory holiday, if it were a statutory holiday; that is, that the commercial sector would see an opportunity here and that there would be other events organized on this day. I think that Canadians right now honour Remembrance Day. They know that Remembrance Day is special. They honour it by attending a ceremony, the children in schools or others in their own way as Canadians, to pause and reflect on what the meaning of the day is.

Let me ask a question about consultation. Because of the confusion that I see, at least, I think it's really important to consult before a bill like this comes forward, because I think that dissipates confusion and you have the buy-in of stakeholders. You'd also have their input in terms of their saying, “Oh, that's not clear to us” or “This is not clear to us”. I'm not convinced that there has been a lot of consultation. I have read in the transcripts, I believe, that there was not official consultation with the provinces. There was perhaps some dialogue, but not consultation with the provinces.

But let me ask about the Legion, Mr. White. Was the Legion formally consulted on this bill and the way it's worded or what is being advanced, before it was tabled?

9:20 a.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Bradley K. White

I think there have been attempts, but I don't think they've been successful, to make that connection to talk about this bill and how it was formulated and what our opinion was on it.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Blais, let me ask you about your organization. Were you consulted in a more formal...? I don't mean just a sort of discussion at the end of an event, but I mean on the intent of the bill. It's not that you would have seen the wording of the bill before parliamentarians, but were you consulted on the intent of the bill and the implied understanding? As I said, right from the very beginning there was confusion over whether it's a statutory holiday or not, and that came right from the proponent of the bill.

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

I can honestly say that I did not hear what he said when he was speaking there and making those references. When it was presented to me, it was clearly defined as a legal holiday. There was no discussion—

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Was that after or before?

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

No, this was when—we're talking about consultation—when he spoke to me.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Was it after the bill was tabled or before the bill was tabled?

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

I think we were in the process at that time.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

After the bill was tabled...?

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

We had prior discussions too, but the bill hadn't been brought forward so I didn't know what he was doing. Once the bill was brought forward, I read it. He sent it to me. He explained that it's a legal holiday. There were no vagarities—

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Right.

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

—on our consultation. This is important.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

If I may, the word “legal” was added afterwards, so—

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

Okay, but my point is—

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

No, I'm getting to the point here of consultation. This is an important bill that affects all Canadians.

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

Sure. Let me finish.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

It affects provinces and it affects schools and school boards—

9:20 a.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

—and I'm simply trying to ascertain.... The word “legal” is an amendment—

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Excuse me. May I raise a point of order?

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

[Inaudible--Editor]

9:20 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Mr. Harris, you'll have your opportunity. First, there's a point of order.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Yes, it's a point of order.

It's what you just said, Mr. Lemieux: that schools will be required to close.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

No, I didn't say that.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Well, if we could go back on the record, that's exactly—