Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 29th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I call the meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everybody. The committee resumes its study today on homeless veterans.

For the first panel, we're pleased to welcome, by video conference from Vancouver, Inspector Colleen Yee, Centralized Operations Services Section, and Constable Alyson Smith, Homeless Outreach Coordinator, Centralized Operations Services Section. They're from the Vancouver Police Department.

On his way, we have also Mr. Matthew Pearce. His flight is late, and he'll probably be arriving around four o'clock. He's President and Chief Executive Officer of Old Brewery Mission in Montreal. His train is late. We'll start the meeting, and when Mr. Pearce comes, we'll get into his testimony.

We'll start with Constable Smith. The floor is yours. You have up to 10 minutes for your opening statements, and a round of questions will follow.

Welcome, from Vancouver.

[Inspector Colleen Yee,, Centralized Operations Services Section, Operations Division, Vancouver Police Department]

Thank you for having us.

[Cst Alyson Smith, Homeless Outreach Coordinator, Centralized Operations Services Section, Vancouver Police Department]

Thank you. My name is Alyson Smith. I'm the Homeless Outreach and Supportive Housing Coordinator for the Vancouver Police Department.

I took a look at the statistics that we have in Vancouver in terms of our homeless veterans. It's a count that we do every year in March. It looks like our numbers are pretty steady, if not increasing a little bit.

In 2015, we had 95 people of that count self-identify as having a military background. It was 127 in 2016. We had a large jump in 2017, when 168 individuals self-identified.

Our homeless count in 2018 was 2,181, of which 111 people, or 8% of that count, identified as having served in either the Canadian Forces or armed forces from another country.

I find this quite interesting. I do outreach on a daily basis, and it's not something that I am necessarily asking people. I think we probably should be asking if they are veterans or have a military background. I understand that there are a lot of services available for our veterans, so it's certainly something on the forefront of my mind to start asking about.

Our homeless population in Vancouver is quite interesting. We have people from all over Canada due to our climate and the services we have available. We are in the process of getting 600 modular units of housing set up in Vancouver. I don't know if that's been a draw for people, but certainly we have a lot of services available. We have a large homeless population, and I'm certainly trying to put my mind to finding out if they are veterans or not.

I haven't come across anybody specifically who I can recall identifying as a veteran, but it is something I'm going to start asking a bit more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll go to questions now, starting with Mrs. Wagantall, for six minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Alyson, for sharing with us.

How long have you been in this particular position doing this work?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

I've been in this position for about two and a half years.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

I'm curious: Why do you do your count in March?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

It's actually a count that's conducted by the city. Police are not involved in it. It's a count that's done within the metro Vancouver area every three years, and then Vancouver itself does a count every year.

I'm not sure why they do it in March, but they do count people who are sheltered as well, in our winter shelters and other kinds of housing options. They count those people as homeless, but sheltered homeless.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

In your role with the police services, what's the objective in having you do this?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

I think my role is one of relationships and partnerships. I conduct outreach every day. I'm out talking to our homeless population and trying to connect them to certain services. I'm a connection between those services and the police, in terms of just being a good contact and a go-between.

[Insp Colleen Yee]

Oftentimes our homeless are victims of crime, and they're reluctant to report. Alyson is the constant face on the street that they become familiar with and they feel comfortable with. When she is conducting her outreach, the chances are higher of reporting if they've been a victim of crime than if she wasn't there and there was no personal relationship established.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That again affirms the need to build relationships with these individuals so you can be trusted, and be a source to possibly help them move off the streets.

In conversation do you get a good sense of why they are there or what they would like to do, and do you have those other organizations like VETS Canada that you can communicate with? What is the co-operative environment that you're working in?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

Certainly we do get life stories from people, and once you build that trust with them, it's a lot easier to be able to have those conversations. I am connected quite well with at least our city outreach teams, which certainly have the connections to things like welfare and housing. A lot of the social services are connected through them.

I recently attended a round table in Ottawa with Veterans Affairs, and I certainly heard about a lot of the available programs. How I can connect more people to these services has been on my mind. How I identify them is maybe one thing I'm not struggling with, but it's a challenge. It doesn't necessarily come up in everyday conversation, but I certainly think I need to be asking more people.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

VAC has indicated that they've created a poster that enables veterans to notice there is a specific place they can call if they are homeless, and they're putting it out in communities across Canada. Have you seen those yet?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

I have. I've noticed a few really large posters at bus stops.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have two minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

This is interesting. You're mentioning to me that you're realizing you would like to dig down deeper and get more of a sense of how many veterans you are dealing with on the streets.

Has it been suggested to you that when you talk with them, you don't ask them if they are a veteran, but rather if they have served, as a means of getting that information from them?

Apparently a lot of our veterans who are on the street either don't necessarily want to admit it or don't think of themselves as veterans.

[Cst Alyson Smith]

Yes. That's a really interesting point.

I think maybe a barrier we have had is not wanting to identify as a veteran, but I hear what you're saying in maybe wording it as “Have you served?” I think that's a great idea.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

[Cst Alyson Smith]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Bratina is next.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you both for joining us.

Constable Smith, I applaud you for the work you do, because the homeless population is very complex to deal with. I'm wondering about homeless veterans, because we're dealing with this topic in this committee. Many veterans are displaying PTSD. You as a police officer will encounter people on the street, and I'll bet that whether it's a veteran or not in the homeless population, there must be times when there is potentially a physical crisis.

I'm wondering if it would be helpful to know they were veterans and that PTSD might be a factor in what they're doing.

How do you deal with street disorder when you're encountering the homeless population, veterans and otherwise?

[Cst Alyson Smith]

Yes, the mental health aspect is large. We're certainly dealing with that here in Vancouver, and I'm sure across the country.

It's always great to have as much information as you possibly can about the people you're dealing with to be able to have conversations with them or maybe bring something up that is meaningful to them or is important. That can ground them at certain times.

I think knowing if somebody has served would be useful for us. We do see a lot of street disorder, and we are well trained as officers in how to deal with the mental health component.

Again, it comes back to some partnerships I have with some of our mental health workers, Specifically, when I'm out on the road with them, I'll visit people who I know are struggling at that time and try to get some services to them that way.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

One of the things we understand from our committee work is that veterans, whether homeless or not, are former military people, and they have a certain way of talking to each other that's not generally open to the public.

I'm wondering if it would be helpful to you if people with a military background talked to you and the people who work with the homeless in terms of what they might anticipate or how conversations might better move forward once you've identified a veteran homeless person versus a non-veteran homeless person. Do you get what I mean?