Evidence of meeting #103 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

General  Retired) Walter Natynczyk (Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs
Karen Ludwig  New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
Michel Doiron  Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs
Charlotte Bastien  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Oversight and Communications, Department of Veterans Affairs
Rear-Admiral  Retired) Elizabeth Stuart (Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Services, Department of Veterans Affairs
Bernard Butler  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs
Richard Martel  Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC

5:20 p.m.

RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart

My IMIT division also carries the responsibility of looking after accommodation requirements. Through the planning process for the growth, my team has been involved from the outset in understanding what the space requirements are for office openings and every other requirement across the country. We work very closely with PSPC and Shared Services Canada to do the fit-up and find the space. We've been very well supported.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Are you at capacity in Charlottetown from a physical plant point of view?

5:20 p.m.

RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart

I would say no. I would say we could still find additional capacity.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Has there been a series of additions put onto the building?

5:20 p.m.

RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart

Not in my recent history; I've been with the department for two and a half years. We have maximized the infrastructure we have. We also have dealt with PSPC for the rental of space that doesn't constitute an addition to a building but space we find in other complexes.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

Okay. Let's move on to Mr. Johns.

You have three minutes, sir.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Thank you.

We talked about the plan to deal with the backlog. You said you couldn't give me the number that you have requested of the minister. Maybe you can answer this. Have you actually costed a plan to deal with the backlog? Has that analysis been done?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

The analysis has been done. The costing is not all finished, because of the point made by the chair. I'm of the view that it's not warm bodies we need. We need to change the fundamental way we're doing business. That means maximizing artificial intelligence, AI, and maximizing the use of our systems. My VAC Account works very well. If you file through My VAC Account, we can do what you have been talking about, sir. It's not only tracking; the file is complete.

That's the area we're now costing. We're working closely with my IT colleagues. We've learned a lot in the past two budgets. When we implemented the DA, nobody had to apply. The system worked. When we did the new seven programs in April 1, 2018, there were some applicants, and there were new programs. But let's say I apply for the education benefit, for example. They will ask me, “Is this you, Monsieur Doiron? Is this your service number?” If I say yes to both, then I don't have to do more. The system works behind the scenes. If they find me and my service number, and my file is clean, I will get an answer pretty fast.

That's what we need to do. We're costing that side of the argument. It's to maximize the smart technology that's out there.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

We appreciate the modernization and working towards that and using technology and innovation. However, the government is announcing more and more new programs, yet I don't see that it's been costed, probably. The backlog's growing. I appreciate that you're going to take some action on trying to be more efficient, but clearly there's not enough staff.

How much new money requested in the supplementary estimates will be dedicated to hiring caseworkers? Have you identified that?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

I don't have the dollar amount, but I do have the number of individuals.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Okay.

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

Under what we call the “surge” proposal, it was 50 case managers.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Okay.

I asked you last winter if you had a plan to hire veterans to serve veterans. Last winter you didn't have a number. In the spring you had a number of 10% by 2020 as the goal. Can you give us an update? We've heard from veterans as witnesses here. I've asked almost every witness how they feel about it, and they wholeheartedly support it. Can you give us an update on the measurement of how that's going in order to meet those goals?

5:20 p.m.

RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart

Being a veteran in the public service myself I can definitely relate. Upon the enactment of the Veterans Hiring Act the deputy and the minister issued a challenge to their counterparts to make a pledge. The pledge we made at the time remains. We are currently working very closely with the Canadian Armed Forces both on the uniform side of the House and with the assistant deputy minister of civilian human resources, and also with the Public Service Commission, which is accountable for the oversight of the implementation of the Veterans Hiring Act.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Do you know the number of veterans serving veterans within your department?

5:20 p.m.

RAdm (Ret'd) Elizabeth Stuart

I don't have it exactly. I will have to get back to you on that. I believe it is what you stated:10% by 2020.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

The goal is 2020. I'd like to get an update.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Phil McColeman

We'll have to end it there, Mr. Johns.

Mr. Martel you have three minutes to finish.

5:25 p.m.

Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC

Good afternoon, Mr. Doiron.

Timelines seem to be the major issue. You said earlier that 19 out of 20 complaints concerned timelines. This has been an issue for a long time. What concrete action can be taken to resolve the issue?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

You're right, Mr. Martel. Timelines are currently one of our big issues, but they aren't the biggest issue. That's why we've started to review all our procedures. Veterans Affairs Canada is currently requesting information that isn't necessary. By eliminating these requests, we're eliminating steps.

For example, we've made changes concerning the medical records that we ask the Canadian Armed Forces to provide. We used to ask for the entire medical record, which took an average of 88 days. Since we had only 16 weeks to process an application and we lost 88 days waiting for the medical record, there wasn't much time left for the rest of the process. Now, in many cases, we no longer even ask for the medical record. We have access to their system. Since this involves personal information, it isn't a simple matter and it requires us to comply with all sorts of rules. In addition, when we reviewed our procedures, we realized that we didn't need an 800-page medical record and that one page of information was sufficient. There are many steps to consider, and these steps have been around for a long time. We don't eat an elephant in one day. We take one bite at a time. By working more resolutely to review these procedures, we'll succeed.

I gave the example of integrated teams. If I work on a file and send the file somewhere else, it may take two or three weeks for the other person to process the file. It's not really the person's client until the person opens the file. This is part of the process, but it causes delays. When all these delays accumulate, we have a considerable timeline. However, in an integrated unit, I can sit down with a colleague, show the colleague what I've done and ask whether the colleague agrees. We can make a decision that day on the file, which wasn't done before.

There's certainly a challenge in terms of work culture. We've been trying to change the culture for a few years. We provide disability benefits, and we used to take an extremely rigorous approach. However, in recent years, we've been much more open-minded, particularly with regard to mental health issues. Perceptions of mental health have changed not only at Veterans Affairs Canada, but also among the general public. We're asking for fewer documents, which helps us to proceed much more quickly.

We've needed to change our work culture. Our employees had been doing things a certain way for 25 or 30 years. Now we're asking them to use a completely different method. We're also teaching this method to our new employees, including through the training provided to our case managers and adjudicators.

5:25 p.m.

Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC

Richard Martel

Have you noticed an improvement?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

Yes, absolutely.

5:25 p.m.

Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC

Richard Martel

Are we able to measure this progress?

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs

Michel Doiron

Absolutely. We're able to observe and measure our progress. Adjudicators used to process an average of 1.2 cases a day. Today, they processes twice as many cases. As a result, we can measure the progress, and employees are accountable for their performance.

5:25 p.m.

Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC

Richard Martel

Thank you.