Evidence of meeting #110 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was use.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marcel Bonn-Miller  Perelman School of Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, As an Individual
Max Gaboriault  As an Individual
Zach Walsh  Associate Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Celeste Thirlwell  Director, Sleep Wake Awareness Program
Karen Ludwig  New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
Arnold Viersen  Peace River—Westlock, CPC

5:15 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

Thank you.

Max, I was remiss to not thank you for your service. Thank you for your service.

5:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

Oh, don't worry about it, that's just what I do.

5:15 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

You're very fortunate. You have a loving wife who seems to be there for you, a seven-year-old—

5:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

Yes, I'm very, very lucky.

5:15 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

—and a 10-year-old. Do you access, or are you able to access, any of the services through Veterans Affairs for family supports?

5:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

I have never had to. I did apply for different programs, like the caregiver one, but because of policy.... Sorry, that one is actually striking a big, deep chord, because it has been designed for physical injury, the caregiver allowance and things like that. My wife can't work; I cannot be left unsupervised, and I have two kids, so imagine. Because I have a mental injury, and in my case maybe more so with the mefloquine, I do not qualify for any caregiver allowance because I can dress and bathe myself and do the.... There's a third thing, but I forget.

However, what is being left out is that nowhere does it mention that my wife reminds me to shower. She says, “Hey, maybe you should get dressed; it's getting late,” because I don't think of those things naturally. All the input that she has, the extra work put on her.... All I'm trying to say is that there is a deficiency for mental injury or disorder, whatever you want to call it. There's no support in that sense within VA.

5:15 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

Thank you.

If I may ask, did you receive a lifetime pension or a lump sum?

5:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

Oh, God. That's another sore point.

To put it in context, I was deployed when the Pension Act was trashed, and the veterans charter. I met the Prime Minister and the CDS twice, and nobody mentioned that while we were deployed; otherwise, I would have probably packed my bags and gone home.

I did get a lump sum payment, which is gone already.

5:15 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

If I may ask then, Max, if you were able to go back to that day when you agreed to the lump sum payment, would you have preferred a lifetime—

5:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

I didn't agree to it.

I just got a letter for that lifetime pension, which is literally the money.... Oh, yes, that's going to be a kicker for you guys. Because I'm over 100%, I've never received the full amount of the total award. As soon as you hit 100%, by law—you can look that up—the government doesn't have to pay me any further amount. I'm about 120% disabled. That covers my ears and all kinds of other parts. But I've never received the full amount.

Now, with that new scheme, they've deducted the full amount with what I didn't receive by law and divided that in monthly payments, tax-free, which was already tax-free to begin with. I'm fortunate. I should be getting a decent amount every month for...I don't know how long. I'm fortunate that way. But it's not nearly.... I did the math, and it does not compensate with the Pension Act.

5:20 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

Thank you. I would ask one quick question.

Dr. Thirlwell mentioned the recommendation that in the transition from being an active member to civilian they go directly to rehab.

Is that a direction you would recommend as well, based on your own experience?

5:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

I completely disagree in the rehab aspect of things. I completely agree with the idea, but not the way it's going. What needs to be done first is a better education of the member prior to release.

My integration to civilian life was a disaster—in the best case. I tried. I really tried, and it didn't work out. That was over two years....

I was offered retraining and whatnot, but I personally can't function in public. I have started my own business as a hobby, not a business, just to give me some drive and to do something that is not stressful per se, although we all know that business is as stressful as hell.

I believe that they need better support when they release, but not necessarily—I forgot the word. I'm sorry.

5:20 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

5:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

None of that nonsense.

5:20 p.m.

New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.

Karen Ludwig

Thank you.

You've been very articulate and very helpful.

5:20 p.m.

As an Individual

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Mr. Viersen, you have five minutes.

5:20 p.m.

Arnold Viersen Peace River—Westlock, CPC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for being here.

Max, thank you for your service.

One of the things that's come to our attention about the VAC treatment centres is that they won't admit somebody if they are using cannabis.

Max, do you know if that continues?

5:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Max Gaboriault

I have never been in any VA facility.

5:20 p.m.

Peace River—Westlock, CPC

Arnold Viersen

Okay.

Dr. Thirlwell.

5:20 p.m.

Director, Sleep Wake Awareness Program

Dr. Celeste Thirlwell

I have a veteran here behind me, Scott Atkinson, who wanted me to bring that up. When he went to Bellwood treatment centre, he was not allowed to have cannabis. He wanted to go back at a later point to just... You know, you can relapse and you need to hone your skills.

He was going to go back for a weekend, but he was told that he would have to be on opiates for the weekend and completely off cannabis or he would not be allowed to go to the program.

5:20 p.m.

Peace River—Westlock, CPC

Arnold Viersen

We've legalized marijuana in this country for recreational use—

5:20 p.m.

Director, Sleep Wake Awareness Program

Dr. Celeste Thirlwell

Yes, and still....

5:20 p.m.

Peace River—Westlock, CPC

Arnold Viersen

—but you still can't go to the VAC and say—

5:20 p.m.

Director, Sleep Wake Awareness Program

Dr. Celeste Thirlwell

Worse than that, there are veterans being discharged by their OSI doctors for not taking pharmaceutical medications, and they are not able to access...other doctors will refuse to treat them.