Evidence of meeting #48 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael McKean  As an Individual
Jody Mitic  City Councillor, City of Ottawa, As an Individual
Philip MacKinnon  As an Individual
Joseph Brindle  As an Individual

4:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Philip MacKinnon

Spilling your guts to one person is hard to do. To two people, it's a lot harder. Now you're getting into numbers of three and four, and people don't want to do it.

There needs to be somewhere.... For example, throughout my career I had one posting that was six years, one posting that was seven years, and everything else was either two or three years. I was down in Halifax and the two years I was down there I started getting the help I needed, and that put me on the right track. There was nothing in London. I got to northern Ontario after that and I was gone too much. When I was home I made contact through the military with a civilian psychologist, but as I said, that psychologist has now retired.

We're in an under-serviced area, so to start over for a third or fourth time...and in that area, there is not that wide a variety. If there are more people there who will take on military personnel.... It needs to be more open. They need to actually tell you how to go about getting in contact with these people, whether it's through Veterans Affairs or through the military. To my knowledge, there are very few there, and the ones who are there now, because this one doctor retired, are already over-booked, so you can't get in to see them.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

It would be very helpful to have a formal structure in place for how this is going to work, and to have specialized people in the field available through VAC.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Philip MacKinnon

Yes, exactly.

If you were to have a total breakdown today, do you have a doctor to go to? You're in Ottawa, and we're in North Bay, which is an under-serviced area.

VAC needs to look at some of these areas where there is a large defence community. They need to come up with some sort of plan to help these people or else they need to petition the government to give them greater incentives to move to this area so these people can be serviced.

It's not financially feasible for someone in North Bay to drive two and a half hours down the road to Petawawa, or four and a half hours to Ottawa for an hour visit once a week or twice a month. I have to stop about half a dozen times to get to Ottawa because of back injuries and knee injuries and all that. Besides the mental strain, you have the physical pain, and that takes a lot out of a person.

I'd like nothing better than to go back and to speak to a psychologist, but that's not going to happen right now.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

All right, thank you, Mr. MacKinnon.

Mr. Brindle, you mentioned a veterans 911. There is a VAC number to call 24 hours a day, 365. Are you familiar with that service?

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

One of the things—

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

That's not the point I'm trying to get at, though.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

Okay. All right.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

When a vet is in crisis, the 911 system that works for civilians doesn't work for the military. I'll give a clear example.

I walked into the base Borden VAC office to get the disability claim I submitted in September 2015, and in fact I had a meltdown. I was angry and the woman felt threatened. I said, “Oh, typical VAC—delay, deny, wait till we die.” Two hours later, I had three OPP officers and a paramedic sitting in my driveway. That's where the 911 call should go. That person who felt threatened in the VAC office should have called the veterans 911.

Your case manager should be involved if a case manager would be of assistance, or there should be a group within the system to contact the veteran, because sometimes they just want to talk. They are just so frustrated with the system that sometimes they have a blow-up. Then they over-respond. They think you're suicidal and they send out the cavalry. Two days later, I got a registered letter banning me from that office. That's the way I was treated over a statement.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

I appreciate that, Mr. Brindle. I'm glad you clarified.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

I'm not the only one.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

What do you think about having available peer support?

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

Peer support works great when they're not cutting budgets for OSISS clinics, because the only place I go out sometimes is for a breakfast with the group in Borden.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

I mean in a crisis situation, do you think peer support—

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

I don't have any peers. When I quit drinking I lost all my friends. I've been out of the military for 14 years. Most of the colleagues that I worked with on contract are.... Most of them are dead. One is Australian, so I keep in touch overseas, but I have no friends. All my ammo-tech friends were from 15 years ago. Again, keep in mind that for the last six years of my career, I worked alone.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS

Okay, thanks.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Ms. Mathyssen.

April 3rd, 2017 / 4:25 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here and bringing us this expertise. It's very important to all of us here to make sure that what we tell the government with regard to the needs of our veterans and mental health supports is documented and supported by the experiences we have heard here.

I have so many questions, but I want to start with you, Mr. Mitic. You talked about the reality of when you and your wife Alannah transitioned out. You said that fighting with VAC creates mental stress, and that Alannah would apply for benefits and then things would shift and the benefits would not be there.

Can you describe or explain that more fully? What kind of impact did that have on your family?

4:30 p.m.

City Councillor, City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Jody Mitic

Frankly, those were my benefits. In that case, to be fair to VAC, it was the DND side, but I hear similar stories from people who are applying to Veterans Affairs as well.

Actually, Alannah had some hearing damage from a mine strike. She applied and was denied immediately, and then she had to appeal. That did its thing, so she got a settlement. Then somebody lost her file, and her case manager was reassigned and she didn't know, so there was this 14-month delay where she was constantly calling the office and not getting anywhere.

She had stressed out enough when I was being messed around with by our case manager in the military. That one was a shock to us, because these are people in uniform who we thought were there to support us. I'm not saying they didn't support us. They did, but not in the spirit in which we would have expected them to treat injured, wounded soldiers.

She is much smarter than I am, so she was able to find her way through the system and deal with the right people. She's also Irish, so when she really gets on a roll, people tend to stand to. Her biggest thing, and my biggest thing, has always been.... As I said in my opening statement, this is a ministry established to help veterans transition into normal life, but so many veterans feel that it's not even worth calling, as in the case of our friend, for fear of receiving negative news or being denied something they expect should be easy-peasy.

I am considered to have my stuff together and to be relatively successful, but any time I have to deal with Veterans Affairs, I get a little uneasy. I look for better things to do, whatever they might be, because I just don't want to deal with, “Well I thought it was this”, and they say, “Well, no, it's not that. It's this”. There are certain benefits you would think are automatic that just aren't.

I was on a committee under former Minister O'Toole when the last government was in charge, and a lot of it was about cutting the red tape and getting rid of all these forms that have to be repeated, but that's just part of it. It's also about the ease of accessing benefits. Call them entitlements for service or whatever you want to call them, but the spirit of it just doesn't seem to be what a lot of veterans feel it should be.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you.

It's a wise husband who admits his wife is much smarter, very wise.

I wanted to ask a bit about family supports, and we've heard they are absolutely critical, very essential.

What works successfully for families? Anyone can jump in here. Is it training? Is it marriage counselling, medical health care for spouses and children, or respite care and better access to VAC for spouses? Do those play a role in making things smoother, easier, and less stressful?

4:30 p.m.

City Councillor, City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Jody Mitic

In a short answer, yes, all of it.

I think in the last budget there was money for home care, or there's a tax break now. That's been 70 years coming. That should have been done 70 years ago. It's amazing.

4:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Joseph Brindle

Informal home health care.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

It has increased up to $1,000 a month.

If you're the spouse who's giving up a career, and that's not just a career but a future pension, $1,000 a month is—

4:30 p.m.

City Councillor, City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Jody Mitic

Better than nothing.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

It's better than nothing, but it's not a career.