Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Dr. Allan English]

Thumbs up.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Professor English, thank you.

I'll ask another question. We've talked about the financial barriers facing veterans, particularly those with injuries. I'll ask each of you to comment on this. Would you say that the re-establishing of lifetime pensions is a positive step in helping veterans in their transition and long-term functioning?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Yes.

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

I would concur.

[Dr. Allan English]

I'll be contrary and say that it depends. If you look at Peter Neary's study that underlined or underpinned the new Veterans Charter, you'll see that he says it's important to look at the age of the veterans and their needs.

If you look at the First World War veterans immediately after the war, you will see that their needs were for reintegration into society, and not long-term support. As they aged, they needed long-term support. Since the new Veterans Charter is supposed to be a living charter, I think what needs to be done is that it just needs to be adjusted so that young people who are doing immediate transition get job training and can transition, and older people or seriously disabled people get lifetime pensions.

Right now it seems that the pendulum has swung too far the other way, but I think it's got to be flexible.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes. Well the design of it actually is flexible, and there are different levels of support depending on whether one is permanently disabled or eligible for retraining and can be retrained to go back to work. Would you agree that the flexibility programmed into it is helpful?

[Dr. Allan English]

I don't have a lot of knowledge of it, but I know that the critics have said that the long-term disabilities aren't large enough and that sometimes the transition support isn't sufficient. All I'd say is that in theory it's good, but I'd want to look a lot more closely at the details before I agreed.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

All right. Thank you.

Professor Norris, you talked about geographic isolation. Of course, Canada—not just regarding veterans, but regarding all services—has the population of California living in the second largest land mass in the world. Among those people who live in geographically isolated areas, is there a higher incidence of worse outcomes in mental health and other sorts of problems in coping, or is the rate comparable to those living in urban areas?

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

I don't have data that would conclusively answer that question. The work I do is not at the population level but more qualitative work, with small samples, but I do know from the literature that I don't think we have that knowledge at present. Unless my colleagues can weigh in here, no, I don't think we know.

That doesn't preclude the opportunity to think of creative ways to engage people who live in rural and remote communities. With social media and technology, I'm sure there are ways we can engage those folks. I know that with its programs Veterans Affairs has made efforts to put them into communities that are removed to a certain extent from urban centres. In a province as small as mine, that's not too big a deal, but in some of the larger provinces it would be. I think there's more work to be done to figure out how to make that work.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

All right, thank you very much.

I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We're going to switch to three-minute rounds, and we'll get three of you in.

Next we have Ms. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much.

Earlier, we heard that there was an article about a rounding error. I just want to clarify for the record that it was actually seven months, not six years, and as soon as the department was made aware of the error, all 133 veterans were retroactively paid the cash. I just wanted to clarify that.

Recently, we announced that veterans would be getting access to the MFRCs, the military family resource centres, which I think is incredibly important. As of April 1 this year, all 32 MFRCs will now have services available for vets and their families. We're investing $147 million over six years and $15 million afterward.

I was just at CFB Winnipeg talking to families, and as a member of a military family, I know that when we need something we go to the MFRC. That's who we go to.

In your opinion, how important is it to continue to provide that support to the families post-service? Could you elaborate, Professor Norris?

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

It's absolutely essential. I live in Halifax, and at CFB Halifax, the MFRC there was one of the pilot sites, one of seven, I believe.

I'm fortunate to have colleagues and former students who work there, so I was kept apprised of how things were going. Because of the stigmatisation around mental health in particular, there's a row to hoe to encourage people to come in through the door, but I think it has great potential, and I'm very happy to see that it's been rolled out across the country.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Le Scelleur, thank you for being here, and congratulations on your participation in the Invictus Games.

We have heard many comments on the importance of partnerships. Could you tell us how the Invictus Games and your organization, Supporting Wounded Veterans Canada, help veterans find new lives and purpose?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

I'm going to say it in French.

When we leave the forces, we no longer necessarily have goals in life. An event like the Invictus Games allows us to fulfill ourselves anew as people, and prove to ourselves that we are still able to accomplish something and to succeed.

A general sentiment among veterans is inability to perform. We view the way we were thanked for our service as a statement that we are no longer able to accomplish anything meaningful. Participating in the Invictus Games allows us to transform as individuals.

It's the same thing for the organization I'm volunteering for. The sporting activities we offer to veterans allow them to meet other veterans in person, and participate in events that can transform their lives. For example, we went to Switzerland and took three veterans with us. They experienced something that changed their lives. It is in that moment, where transformation occurs, that having a mentor gives them the help they need to venture into new territory in their lives.

Thank you.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Go ahead, Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

First of all, thank you all for being here. This is so helpful.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I'm very interested in the whole issue of detraining. We heard a lot about that from different organizations, veterans helping veterans, that are trying to mobilize this more. We heard that sleep is a huge issue. You're trained for fight or flight thinking, and there's diet, and rebooting as far as being part of a family in a different dynamic is concerned. What are the key things that should take place in that whole reprogramming? When the programming was for you to fight, how do we deprogram?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

You're exactly right on these points. Sleep is a big issue, then nutrition, and the bad habits also. As well, there is the need to reconsider our own values, which normally is something that's totally absent because we're working with the values of the organization.

Just to be able to think about being an individual again and not being part of a group. In the past, the financial part, the family part, the employment part, all of that, what we do to train a soldier, we should do the opposite for detraining.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's the Canadian Armed Forces that does the training. Whose responsibility is it to flip that? Is it VAC's? Would they comprehend or really understand what was done to put you in this condition? I don't think so. Should the Canadian Armed Forces or DND play a roll in that, by saying you've done a great job, you have been who we needed you to be, now we affirm your being something—

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Since they are the provider of the salary, it should be done while the person is still in service. That portion could be the responsibility of the military. I would say that Veterans Affairs would be working in collaboration with the forces and maybe also with civilian organizations.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

Ms. Norris, first of all, thank you for all of your research. Before the Invictus Games, I was able to attend the symposium on the family and was blown away by what's going on and the concerns and the involvement in seeing that it is the whole family that we have to deal with. It was very good. I would like to ask you if you could determine for yourself what your next dream project would be, priority one or two.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

I think I would just like to carry on with some of the work that we just reported, so that we could continue to drill down to get the stories directly from the families and to understand more about that bidirectionality. I'm convinced that it's absolutely essential to the work of this committee moving forward.

Thank you.