Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 8th, 2018

[Noel Lipana]

I think the trust factor is big. As far as competency goes, no. I think any military family member or just even a civilian.... That can even be a benefit in itself. When I look across at a caseworker and I see a civilian, he or she has volunteered to be there. They've opted into that piece of work. Every civilian I've worked with has told me, they wanted to be there. This is their way of serving our nation, to reclaim and recapture, even it's just doing some administrative paperwork.

You talked about best practices. I got the sense that you tie your first responder community a bit closer to your military veteran community as well. That may not be a fair observation. And I think that's extremely wise, because at least in the U.S., many of our first responders—paramedics, fire, police—come from a military background. So when they transition out, it's intermediate before retirement, and they come into another very structured environment, one that is purpose- and value-driven. It's a good landing spot, if you will. But then you still have the same problems when that individual comes out of retirement from police, fire, or medical work.

My broader vision and hope is that the work we do in the U.S. for our military veterans will translate to our first responder community as well. We're taking notes of how well you do that here in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Lambropoulos, you have four minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for being here with us to answer our questions.

Either one of you can answer my first question. Have you met a significant number of veterans who don't want support when they retire from the military, who would rather be left alone, and who don't want to be tied up in Veterans Affairs?

[Debbie Lowther]

We have had experience with veterans who are not interested in connecting with Veterans Affairs. Sometimes they're in denial of the fact that they do need those services. Sometimes it's a case of their having heard the horror stories of dealing with Veterans Affairs, and they don't want to subject themselves to that.

When we have the opportunity to connect with a veteran, we tell them they're cutting off their nose to spite their face. Veterans Affairs has the benefits they need and are entitled to. Our volunteers will walk them through that process, act as an intermediary between the veteran and the Veterans Affairs case manager, a buffer to help smooth that relationship a little.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

As you said, when members are in the military they're very much moulded into being the soldiers the military wants, that their commanders want. Then they're left on their own afterwards. It's up to them if they want to receive services, or if they even want to create a My VAC Account.

Would you recommend or suggest that it be mandatory and that it should begin before their release? Perhaps you could speak a bit to it and give us examples.

[Debbie Lowther]

I would say that it should be voluntary, but I think that perhaps the chain of command should have some input, because some people don't realize that they're struggling. I think the chain of command should be educated to look for the warning signs that people might not be doing as well as they think they're doing. It's been our experience that the people who tend to struggle the most are sergeant and below. Sometimes people who serve less than 10 years are the people who tend to struggle the most. Then, on the flip side, we also see people who serve for a very long time who struggle because that's the only life they've ever known.

I think it should be voluntary, because I do know a lot of members who would want to release and not have somebody tell them that they need training to become a civilian. However, I think the chain of command should have input.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Samson, you have four minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you both very much for your presentations.

Ms. Lowther, I really appreciate your coming here and also the work you do in Nova Scotia, my home province. I find it amazing when I hear stories about veterans and how you are able to help them. I sometimes wonder what we would do if you and your team were not there.

Your outreach is right across Canada. I only have four minutes and I have about four more questions. In 45 seconds, can you tell us how you provide the service right across Canada?

[Debbie Lowther]

As you said, we did start in Nova Scotia. Through the power of social media, actually, we were able to expand our reach across the country and encourage like-minded, caring, Canadians to step up and volunteer.

We do things in two ways, proactively and reactively. Proactively, our volunteers actually go out into the streets and visit the shelters. You know that, as you've come out with us before. We actively go looking for veterans who may be in crisis. Reactively, we take referrals from Veterans Affairs case managers, from shelter staff, and from veterans themselves or family members. Our reach is wide. We have a large volunteer database, so we're able to assist veterans pretty much anywhere.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

I know you could go on for a long time.

I have two quick questions. We hear all kinds of stories of the problems, how they got into these situations, and how they fell through the gap.

One, you write a report every month to Veterans Affairs. When they hear certain things that are ongoing, are they making changes or adjustments to make it seamless?

Two, I know you may not feel comfortable talking about Veterans Affairs directly, but what are some of the stories you're hearing about what's really causing the gap for the seamless transition?

[Debbie Lowther]

One of the big issues we see is the lack of uniformity in the services that veterans receive from Veterans Affairs.

For example, when my husband released, his case manager was fantastic. She went head to toe, talked about his service, and told him of every benefit that he could possibly be entitled to. We have veterans who come to us and say that they went to Veterans Affairs and the case manager said here's your paperwork and come back when it's filled out. They have no idea what they're entitled to. If they don't know, they don't know what to ask for. I think that's one of the biggest concerns we have with Veterans Affairs.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Have you see any changes? It's been since 2010, so eight years or so. Have you see any adjustments? If I'm responsible for delivering services and I have an agency helping me, telling me what's happening on the ground.... Are you seeing ongoing changes? Or is it just status quo: here's how it unfolds, here's how decisions are taken, this is the process, and it continues on?

[Debbie Lowther]

The biggest change we've seen is the fact that the department has actually acknowledged the fact that there are veterans who are homeless or in crisis. When we first started this in 2010 and we approached the department in Nova Scotia, we were told that there were no homeless veterans. They had visited shelters, dropped off brochures, and nobody contacted them. Their conclusion was that there were no homeless veterans.

Fast-forward to 2014, and they're awarding us a contract to provide this service for veterans who are homeless and in crisis. I think that's the biggest improvement. I know that when veterans identify as homeless to Veterans Affairs, there is a check in the box on their file so that they are given priority of services and they are looked at a little bit more closely, supposedly. It's been our experience that that's not always the case.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I don't have any more time but just throw me a number. You have an outreach across Canada. How many homeless veterans do you think exist in Canada?

[Debbie Lowther]

I know the official number that was thrown around a few years ago was 2,250. I would say it's more like 5,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Kitchen, you have four minutes, please.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you both for coming.

Colonel, with this committee, I was fortunate to get a tour of Walter Reed National Military Medical Center down in the United States. I happen to have been a patient there back in 1976, many years ago.

When we deal with soldiers who are injured, who may have lost a limb, we talk a lot about the loss of the social support that they had and their ability to lose their comrades. One of the things that we learned and saw is that the U.S. integrates those soldiers and keeps them within the service for longer because they can provide a service.

I'm just wondering if you could comment on that and how you see that as a benefit.

[Noel Lipana]

We have what's called the integrated disability evaluation system. I don't know if you were apprised of that during your tour, but essentially that is a way for the service to keep a member in, regardless of branch, if that member wants to stay in. If you lose a limb, or whatever your disability is, they will rate you concurrently with the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.

Before, that wasn't the case. You could come out of the military with one rating from the service and one from the VA, which are very different. They've integrated those two now and will give the member the option to stay in if they want it and if their disability does not preclude them from prolonged military service.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Is that of value, and would you also comment on whether you feel that it helps in that transition when they finally do decide to retire and go into civilian life?

[Noel Lipana]

I think it's of value for several reasons, not the least of which is because that individual gets to model continued service for his or her fellow service members. I believe the term you use here in Canada is “universality”. It also gives the member agency so that they have initiative and have input on what the trajectory of their transition is, whether it's to stay in or, later, to leave.

We also have wounded care within the services. I had a team assigned to help me navigate the administration, my benefits package, and my community support.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

Ms. Lowther, back in December 2016, we did a report. Recommendation,10 talked about not releasing until the member is ready and all things are in place—health, rehabilitation, and vocational services.

Would you add anything that should be in there?

[Debbie Lowther]

I think that efforts are being made to enforce that, but it is still happening that members are being released before they're ready, so I think improvements need to be made in that regard. In some cases, it's the fact that the member is just very good at hiding the fact that they're struggling.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I agree with you on the concept of an exit boot camp. We have talked about that many times. You mentioned pairing with a peer or a mentor.

In the short time I have left, I'm wondering whether you could expand on that. What do you mean? How do you see that working?

[Debbie Lowther]

I think that people who release and are successful at releasing may volunteer to become a mentor for those who come after them. When members are releasing, they would have access to that kind of pool of peers who are available, even if it's just a phone call once in a while for a buddy check.