Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

My question isn't about skills, but about the ability to convey information about what's new and promote it. It's essential.

Let's go back to case managers.

They're on the ground, so they're hearing and seeing what's working and what isn't. Can you maybe share some of the common barriers they are sharing? They're on the ground and they see it and they talk and work with.... Are there some common areas that they're sharing where there seems to be a gap in the transition? They're seeing it, so what feedback can you give me on that?

[Nathalie Pham]

When we talked about the enhanced transition services that were put in place, that was one of the mechanisms for addressing some of the barriers. We talked a lot about the communication between the two departments, CAF and Veterans Affairs, to make sure the relevant information is being shared in a timely manner to help the case manager use that information to develop a case plan and move forward when working with the veterans.

Engaging and building relationships earlier in the process is one of the key elements to making sure our veterans are not moving from being CAF members to becoming veterans without having that early proactive intervention.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

What do we mean by “early”—a day, a week, a month?

[Nathalie Pham]

It's a few months. Before the releasing process, the nursing case managers of Veterans Affairs will discuss it with their DND counterparts, and it can start up to six months ahead of time.

We know that in some circumstances CAF members know they are going to be released, but may be kept up to three years with CAF. During that period, we start working with the member to make sure that the services are in place by the time the transition comes and that we have addressed the needs of the veterans and their families.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We need improvement in that area. Can you speak about the dynamics between the case workers for both VAC and DND?

[Nathalie Pham]

As you do know, the case managers at DND have nursing backgrounds. They're under a medical model. The primary concern of the case managers at VAC is reintegration into civilian life. There's a lot of communication before the releasing process. It is part of our enhanced transition strategy to make sure that the case managers from DND communicate concerns they may have so VAC can start being involved pre-release. They can start to work with the veteran so there is a continuity of services during the transition. When the member becomes a veteran, he or she is not left without a case manager in the process.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Should we have one unit instead of two departments? Would a fusion into one department make it seamless, or could that improve it?

[Nathalie Pham]

Currently we see that the mandate is different for the two case managers. As you know, the DND case managers are assigned to medically release members, and our VAC case managers are assigned to all veterans who have complex needs. DND addresses the medical issues during the transition; from a VAC perspective, we address all the issues that could be barriers to transitioning into civilian life.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

But that's where some of the transition problems are—bingo, right in that dead centre.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm sorry; we're out of time. Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate all of you being here today. I'd like to follow up on the question that my colleague gave you, Ms. Douglas. It is in regard to the ombudsman's report and his recommendation on the injury that is causing a member to be released from the armed forces being determined as service-related or not prior to their coming to VAC. Your answer was clearly, no, you did not agree with that recommendation. Is that correct, yes or no? Just yes or no. I have a lot to ask.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I'd like to say that VAC believes that this is a VAC function.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you. I understand that. Unfortunately, we're not here for what VAC believes. We're here for whatever is going to work best for our veterans in their transition. We know that on top of leaving under those circumstances, having to wait to determine whether or not they qualify for VAC is incredibly challenging to them and causes a great deal of additional angst. I find it very disrespectful to our transitioning members that they have to wait multiple weeks for case managers to collect all of this information that is readily available already. To me, as a picture of how a business would operate serving its customers, this is not good.

My concern is why it is your priority that it stay within VAC when it would clearly serve our members far better if it were determined prior to their coming to VAC. VAC would be responsible for delivery of service and benefits, freeing up those case managers' time to do a far better job of knowing how to best serve those veterans and meet all of their needs, rather than this constant angst of not getting service delivery. That's the focus of this study.

We have so much information on programs. I want to know where we can do better as far as the people involved in the bureaucracy are concerned and making this work for our veterans.

Why would you see that as the priority, to leave it where it is?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

It is not case managers who adjudicate.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Whoever it is that adjudicates.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

First, in terms of the process, once a veteran is determined to need, for example, rehabilitation services, they would go into our rehabilitation program. That turnaround time is two weeks for rehabilitation.

In terms of the disability award, that is where we look at the attribution to service, and in many cases—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I understand that, but would it not streamline the process, which is what we're looking to do, if it were at least deemed, as they left, that their injury was or was not due to service before they left the armed forces, yes or no?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

We find it better to give that thorough understanding of the illness and the injury when it comes to VAC.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Who would not know better, when it comes to serving in the armed forces, whether or not that injury was due to their service, VAC or DND? Right now, you say on page 3 that the integration of VAC staff with the IPSC has permitted VAC the opportunity to better understand military culture. I find it very disturbing that we have to find ways for VAC “to better understand military culture”.

How long has VAC been in place and how long have they been providing services to veterans who are coming out of military service, and you're having to make that one of your priorities to better understand military culture?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

What I would say to that is that we aim to understand military culture at numerous points, but this is also one of the points.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I think from the feedback that we've had from multiple veterans, who are the ones who are struggling and the ones who are in the circumstances where we're trying to improve their services, they would say that is not accurate.

Do I have time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have two minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

Very briefly, to Mr. Misener, thank you for your services and where you're heading with JPSU. You have a huge mandate here that has been a challenge, it would appear, to a number of individuals trying to fill your role. You indicate that you hope to be there for at least a couple of years. I hope this is at least the case for you.

I have a quick question. On the move up to a higher level of priority, Did you say you're number two now in hiring?

[BGen Mark Misener]

Yes, Madam.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

When it says these commanding officers will be up-ranked shortly in some regions, from majors to lieutenant-colonels, has that up-ranking impacted what that number is?