Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That would be great. Thank you.

In talking to this individual that I mentioned previously, I'm not comfortable giving out his name at this point in time. I hope we all understand that.

One of the things he also mentioned about the base he is on is that this last Christmas, there were six suicide attempts, and five of them succeeded. The struggle is with the backlog of people going for medical care, and they basically just get told to take extra sick days. One of them literally got handed from person to person and taken to where they needed to be, and that's the one who did not take their own life.

Again, I appreciate that we need to do more on the whole awareness of mental health and do better with that.

I also asked another question previously of Ms. Elizabeth Douglas in regard to a committee report in 2015 on continuum of transition services. It was made clear that it can be very difficult to reach reservists after their services come to an end. In 2016, in response to a question our colleague Ms. Romanado posed, this answer was stated by a co-witness, Ms. Pellerin:

The group we're not so successful within terms of reach as the non-medically-releasing reservist group. As part of the seamless transition task force work that's getting under way, this is one group we'll be focusing on in terms of how we can better reach and serve them to make sure they're successful in their transition.

That was at the beginning of June 2016. I assume this study is done. Approximately 5,000 reservists leave each year, and I had asked how many were being contacted per year through this transition. She was going to get back to me with that, and I haven't heard that as well.

Is that information available?

[Michel Doiron]

It should be, because I have the number of reservists who are leaving on a yearly basis, and I have how many are leaving for.... It is approximately 5,000. That is pretty consistent. It varies, but it's close. I do have the number of medically releasing in that, and we would absolutely contact those.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Those are the ones they are contacting for a transition review. You would have that number.

[Michel Doiron]

Yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

[Michel Doiron]

We do have those numbers, but I do want to clarify that reservists, by their nature, are more difficult....

Without getting into classes, because I know the military is looking at it, let's say you're a class A. You're coming on Thursdays nights and maybe a Saturday here or there. You actually can decide, at any point, to leave. We're not always informed of that. We're working very hard with the CAF reserve leadership to find a way to make sure we're told about it. When a person comes in on a Thursday night, gives in their kit, and decides to go to work in Fort Mac or somewhere else in the country, we're not always advised of that.

So there's a difference there—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Right, but this study started in 2016. I'm just wondering if there are results from it that we could have.

[Michel Doiron]

Perhaps you could provide me with more information on that study to make sure I provide the right stuff. I think it's a transition study—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes.

[Michel Doiron]

—but perhaps you could provide some more information.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. Thank you.

I have another quick question here, although I don't know how quick it will be. We ask it often, and I'm hearing about it again. It's the whole issue around medical records. Of course, my perspective is in agreement with the ombudsman's, that we should be providing the information to VAC when they are medically released; the reason for that medical release is or isn't service-related. From the information I have from the analyst, if you are going to be leaving and as a member you request your medical records, you can get them before leaving the service, but afterwards, if you've left, the request goes out, but your records go to VAC, not to you.

Is that correct? Do they also go to the individual? I have also been told that they only can request 10 pages at a time. Is that accurate? I've asked that and I haven't heard back.

[Michel Doiron]

You would have to ask the Canadian Armed Forces. It's their records.

Once you leave the Canadian Armed Forces, after one year we go to Library and Archives to get your record. It does not come automatically to VAC. As to what you can release, and the process, you would have to ask the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Samson, you have six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here today and sharing this information as we continue to try to drill deeper and get a better understanding so that we can advocate for and support our veterans. One thing I would like to say is that the advertising I've seen on Facebook and other places through VAC has been very, very positive. I'm getting a lot of positive feedback. I'm using it to share with my veterans. That's something I did want to share, because this is important.

In testimony we're getting a lot of feedback about veterans having to repeatedly prove their illness when they make new applications. Have we made improvements? How much so, and how quickly?

[Michel Doiron]

We have made some improvements. I don't think the department.... Look, I'm the service guy, so I'll point the finger at myself. I don't think we've done enough yet. We're bound by legislation. We have to ask the questions we ask. However, with the oncoming pensions for life, we're entirely relooking at how we're going to do this, and to do this in a more modern way.

Notwithstanding that, we're actually looking at the process in terms of trying to eliminate the need for pension medical examinations. You will always have to explain how your injury was caused. You will always need a diagnosis. That's the legislation. We're trying to eliminate all those other steps that are attached to it. It's a slow process, but it's going.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I appreciate that. I mean, that information should be tracked. It should exist, but some veterans are saying that you should just have to put a check mark in the box, tell them to check your file—i.e., file WK6—and it should be there. I know you said that you're going to work on that improvement, but I'd like to see a plan in the next six months for how we're going to see improvement in that area and what our objectives are to make that happen.

It's the transition that's really causing veterans a lot of headaches. A little bit like Mrs. Wagantall mentioned, and I'm of the same opinion, why can't DND just make the assessment of service-related injury? Do you object to that? Do you have a problem with that, and to what extent?

[Michel Doiron]

I am on the record here, so I'm not going out on a limb. I disagree with the ombudsman at CAF, because I think 25% of our veteran clients come out of the Canadian Armed Forces, and 75% come afterwards. You want to have a consistent way of dealing with them. You don't want one person doing the adjudication one way and another group doing it another way, and then you have two or three different classes of veterans.

That said, I do think the doctors at CAF—and that's why we're working with them very hard—should be diagnosing the injury. If they do a CF 98, the check mark you're talking about, we're into a different realm, but often they don't fill it out. The CF 98 is the form used when you have been injured.

I have a nephew in the Canadian Armed Forces, and I asked him about it. He is a pilot, and he told me he wouldn't fill it out unless he could not report to duty, so there is still that mentality.

But if they do their diagnosis, you have the CF 98, our job is way easier at the other end.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

To continue on that flow, or that theme that is so important, some people are saying that we should join the CAF and VAC when it comes to the transition. That way you can't blame Charlie Brown or you can't question the other department. It's obvious that everybody seems to say it would help.

Do you see that as a possible improvement?

[Michel Doiron]

Sir, I will not comment on that. That is a political decision and a machinery of government decision, and I think it's a question to be asked of politicians, to have that debate. It's not for a public servant to comment.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Absolutely. I just thought I should put the question on the table.

Moving to the next question about cultural change, you made some good points about care, compassion, and respect, and moving forward in that area. You did say that there are still pockets or areas where there is lack of improvement. Can you help me understand what they are and define that a little more deeply?

[Michel Doiron]

Absolutely. In adjudications it's much better, but we still have some areas that were trained under an older regime and still really think the test is higher for them. We're working on that, their position that it is public money and that they want to be careful.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Should MPs, with their staff, be sending you names of individuals who seem to be causing a lot of stress? I'm hearing in certain cases that nothing has changed in the last two years as far as service is concerned.

I know that anybody can make comments. I'm not pointing fingers, but is there any way we can...? You just said that some who have been there for a long time have an older culture and whatnot. Can we do something to try to help you understand or see who they are, and how we can improve it? I ask because it is an issue. Some staff have been there for a long time, but the veteran is in need today, not tomorrow.

[Michel Doiron]

Mr. Chair, you have my email. We communicate often, and you're always at liberty to send me that information, or other MPs can.

The reality though is let's always be careful. Sometimes “no” is the right answer; it is not a popular answer, but it is the right answer. It's not that we don't want to give something to somebody, but sometimes the act does not permit us to do that; the person is just not entitled. And if the act doesn't allow me to pay something, it's illegal for me to pay it. Whatever I believe is irrelevant; it's illegal.

I would assume in your case a case manager in the greater Halifax area or Sydney is causing you angst; you can always send me a note.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Kitchen, you have three minutes.