Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

I should also say that our clientele come to us not only while they're in uniform and on transition, but that the vast majority actually come to us after they've released from the Canadian Armed Forces. In fact about 25% of our clientele come to us while they're still serving, another 25% come in that two years after they release, and then 50% come to us from about year two to year 50 or 60. Sometimes those records are no longer in the Canadian Armed Forces; they're actually in Library and Archives. So actually getting all those files together, and then joining them up with a more recent diagnosis, is quite a challenge even over and above the comments about privacy that the minister mentioned.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

We've heard about of the role of caregivers in the day-to-day roles of veterans. Can you speak to any upcoming benefits that might address this role?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

That benefit starts April 1. It will be paid to the caregiver, it is tax-free, and it is $1,000.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Wagantall, you have six minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today.

My questions will revolve around your conversation on closing the seam.

I had five different conversations with veterans, and I'm beginning to find where they are in Saskatchewan because they are trying to connect with me. One particular individual, who is not in Saskatchewan right now, is posted into JPSU waiting for medical release. He was told he can't be released, won't be released, until everything is in place and that his contract would not be up until 2020.

His wing surgeon sent confirmation to Ottawa that he was approved for service-related medical release. The report included testimony from the base doctor, the base psychiatrist, his case manager, and his civilian doctor. The response back from VAC, which his doctor could not believe, was that more proof was required. We're trying to close this seam and who knows better whether that person who's being medically released from service is released due to service injuries—DND or VAC?

I had this conversation on February 15 with Ms. Elizabeth Douglas, because the ombudsman had indicated that they recommended that at the initial release from service, DND clarify whether or not the release was due to service or not. Her response to my request to have her perspective was that VAC believed this is a VAC function. I went on to ask if it would not streamline the process—which is what we're trying desperately to do here for these guys and gals—if it were at least deemed when they left the armed forces that their injury was or was not due to service. She continued to say that she felt it was their responsibility.

I'm going to quote one more statement. I asked who would know better when it comes to serving in the armed forces whether that injury causing release was due to their service? Would it be VAC or DND? Right now, in her report, she has said the integration of VAC staff with the IPSCs has given VAC the opportunity to better understand military culture. I find it very disturbing that we have to find ways for VAC to better understand military culture to deal with an issue that could be taken care of long ahead of their leaving, and then taking months for it do so. What's slowing them down in getting their VAC services is not ignorance of what they qualify for, but the amount of time it takes for their release to be identified as being a result a service-related injury.

Is that not something, Minister, that you could do immediately and say, from now on when they're being released VAC will know, as the releasing service member comes over, that this is a service-related injury? Yes or no?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I can't say yes or no, Ms. Wagantall, other than to say that every case being every case.... I'm as frustrated hearing that story as anybody would be, save, obviously, for the people who are actually involved. We can't do this fast enough. The direction we are attempting to go in is to identify the immediate things we can address right now. In some of it we're going to get into legislation and regulation and bigger beasts. I'm not going to let that intimidate us. We're going to try to find the smaller things that we can do. I'm hearing this story again and again at town halls, and I'm happy to say—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

What would be the—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

—just by way of reference because it's important—that Admiral John Newton, who's been tasked by the Chief of the Defence Staff to follow us in these town halls, does attend and we hear about these cases.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I'd ask, what is the rationale for needing to wait to VAC to make that determination? I know there are other injuries that come along over time, and I totally get those. However, we're talking about when they are released as part of being prepared completely to transition. Yet, that one decision of whether it's service-related cannot be given to them before they're released.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

First of all, thanks very much for the question because it is absolutely fundamental.

As I mentioned before, about three-quarters of the clientele who come to VAC come after their release, so they have left the Canadian Armed Forces either on retirement or voluntarily and then come to us at some point in the future. One of the key aspects is, are we standardized across the board in terms of attribution of service and non-service? I think it's absolutely terrific that the Canadian Armed Forces are holding on to these men and women until everything is done. While they're in uniform, they have the best medical care the country can provide. They have their income for as long as they stay in uniform, which is absolutely terrific. I can't comment upon an individual case; it would be inappropriate. Keep in mind that the minister's responsibility under the new Veterans Charter is for service-related injuries. At the same time, the crown pays for a significant portion of the service income security insurance plan program, SISIP. The key purpose it's there is non-service related and, based upon the program arrangement we have, it's also the first payer for both service and non-service. Even if for the individual—and I'm not talking about a specific case—their injuries are not attributed to service, then they have the full SISIP program, upon which the new Veterans Charter will pay.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I know all of this. It's a simple question, though. We're trying to improve the transition process for these people. It's a simple determination to change that, so that when they leave and they're being removed due to medical reasons, are those medical reasons due to service, yes or no?

I'll just leave it at that.

I have another quick question. In the budget, the example for lifelong pensions is a particular service member who served for 25 years, the full 25 years, and then suffered a severe injury and was released. In the example of that scenario, can you tell me realistically how many of our individuals who are released with 100% disability have that happen after 25 years of service?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Can I ask you to make it short, please? We're out of time.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The bulk of the cases we see are actually hearing loss and tinnitus. If I was going to point to anything that would be the driving force behind the flexibility we wanted pension-for-life to have, it would be PTSD, because those are cases where something can happen and it can take hold five or 10 years down the road. We wanted to make sure that the system was flexible enough to be able to suit that individual. That was—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Bratina, you have six minutes, please.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

I was in a steel mill the other day and talking to a steelworker about my job. He asked what I did, and I said, “I'm on the veterans committee and I'm quite proud of the work we do.” He said, “Well, I'm a veteran.” I said, “Do you have a My VAC Account?” He said, “What's that?” Honestly, I've had that same or similar conversation, so on the push-pull, does the push include reaching out? Can you tell me about that part of it? We still have people who don't know that there are things available to them and easily accessible.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I don't want you to think we're leaving the push only to My VAC. We're not, although I'm not going to make any sweeping generalizations about what age group uses apps on an iPad. We've seen all ages that have gone to and have been attracted to the My VAC Account. We've seen a huge uptick in the number of people who are opening My VAC Accounts.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

You are?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes, which is really good. It's been quite a lot of uptake.

[A voice]

It has been in excess of 60,000.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes, it has been in excess of 60,000, the bulk of which has been in the last couple of years.

It's much easier. Everything is set up: what medical records are relevant that you have. It's all included. It also leads you directly to where we want you to go on direct deposit and all sorts of things.

We keep trying to improve My VAC to keep up with that demand and keep up with capacity. Also, to your point, whether it's guided support or case management, it's an attempt to find out your circumstances and then tell you about what you are eligible for, as opposed to just totally sitting back and wondering if they're going to find out about what they're eligible for. That's the sea change that had to take place, and it can't happen quickly enough.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

In your opening remarks, you talked about the supplementary estimates, the $45 million and the $132 million. On the grants and contributions, can you just flesh out a bit for me what the $132 million is dedicated towards?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The forecast for the disability pension grant decreased due to fewer eligible war service veterans than originally forecast. This is an example. VAC reallocates this money to programs that require additional funding before seeking new funding from the fiscal framework. The transfer payment table lists all the grants that require an increase in authority regardless of whether new funding was required, and this is the reason that the total of these grants and contributions exceeds the amount of new funding being requested.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I see. Okay.

The veteran emergency fund is another situation where knowledge of the fund might be the problem. Generally speaking, how is that working? What is the intake of requests for those kinds of emergency funds?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Again, Chair, ladies and gentlemen, the veteran emergency fund will start on April 1. At every one of our 37 locations across the country, there will be people delegated to be able to spend those funds for any veteran in crisis. In addition to that, we're setting up a hotline to be able to work with our partners, which are the Royal Canadian Legion, VETS Canada, Soldiers for Soldiers, and Veterans Helping Veterans, in order to be able to get funding as a bridge to ensure that those veterans who show up on a weekend, in an evening, in the middle of the night, or on a Friday afternoon can at least have shelter, can have some support while we try to figure out who they are.

Again, some veterans don't want to be found yet. The minister and I were out in Victoria at Cockrell House, supported by the Royal Canadian Legion. Because of the temperate climate of Vancouver Island, many veterans move across the country and go out west, and they camp out. To see these veterans come in, some who have been out of the military for many years, and to see, in this case, the Royal Canadian Legion working with VAC to bring these folks in and put a roof over their heads while they figure out who they are, then get them into addiction treatment, mental health treatment, or vocational rehab, and to see the graduates of the program brief the minister was absolutely phenomenal.