Evidence of meeting #95 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was centres.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wally Sinclair  Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres
Leland MacLeod  Representative, National Association of Friendship Centres
Ruston Fellows  National Association of Friendship Centres
Karen Ludwig  New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
Shaun Chen  Scarborough North, Lib.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Good afternoon.

I'd like to call the meeting to order, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), a study on the needs and issues specific to indigenous veterans.

Welcome to the witnesses.

Please note that the National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, who was supposed to appear last Tuesday, is scheduled for October 16.

Today we are pleased to welcome as a witness Wally Sinclair, board member of the National Association of Friendship Centres.

Mr. Sinclair, we'll turn the meeting over to you for 10 minutes. Welcome, and thanks for coming today.

3:30 p.m.

Wally Sinclair Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

[Witness speaks in Cree]

I am Wally Sinclair, a member of the Sawridge First Nation in Slave Lake, Alberta, and I am honoured to be here. I am also a board representative of the National Association of Friendship Centres.

I'll have my colleagues introduce themselves, please.

3:30 p.m.

Leland MacLeod Representative, National Association of Friendship Centres

Hello. I am Leland MacLeod. I am the program officer at the NAFC. I am also a reservist in the Canadian Forces in the Governor General's Foot Guards.

3:30 p.m.

Ruston Fellows National Association of Friendship Centres

My name is Ruston Fellows. I am a research assistant with the NAFC. I am from southwestern Ontario.

3:30 p.m.

Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

Wally Sinclair

I am going to briefly let him share why we're wearing orange shirts today, please.

3:30 p.m.

National Association of Friendship Centres

Ruston Fellows

We're a bit early, but the orange shirts are for remembering residential school survivors and particularly the people who are often forgotten. Today we're also wearing them to remember the veterans who are often forgotten and who we are supporting today.

3:30 p.m.

Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

Wally Sinclair

Thank you.

Greetings, distinguished members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. It is an honour and privilege to appear before you today. I thank you for this opportunity to share with you the work of the friendship centre movement and the National Association of Friendship Centres relative to the issues of indigenous veterans.

Before I begin, I wish to acknowledge and thank the Algonquin nation, upon whose unceded and traditional territories we are gathered today.

My name, as stated, is Walter Sinclair. I never use Junior—that's my late father. I am a member of the Sawridge First Nation.

I'm going to talk briefly about my experience, because it's important with regard to the travels that I do and where I work with identifying and finding out that the veterans are there and they've never acknowledged themselves because of the history and where they're from in that area.

I have quite a bit of experience working within the federal and provincial governments, first nations and Métis, as stated here. I was a department program specialist. I managed indigenous issues and provided political and cultural advice to ministers and senior government officials. I did this on the basis of being hired by the province at the time. People were always wondering why I was working for four or five different provinces. It's not just the knowledge—what I learned from each one, I come forward to share. A lot of what we found lacking was within the veterans part of it, a very small portion.

I ensured that services for all indigenous communities were appropriate for their political, cultural, spiritual and social heritage by consulting and collaborating with all stakeholders. That's what we call “protocol”, making sure that everybody's respected in our community and introducing people. I always mention the fact that we are not paper people. We're people people. We shake hands and acknowledge each and every one. We know on the government side we need paper trails.

I volunteered for a number of local causes and served on a number of provincial and local boards, including the friendship centres as an adviser, as I'm sitting here today.

I served with the Canadian Armed Forces for 10-plus years and the Royal Canadian Signal Corps as a lineman, 052 trade. This experience gave shape to the person I am today. I'm also 35 years sober, and that makes a significant difference in my life today as I sit here.

As a young person growing up with my late uncle Sam Sinclair, a World War II vet, we were coached as kids in sports in Slave Lake, Alberta. He used the military approach of discipline and respect with us. It was the same with my grandmother, who understands Cree only, no English. I was the interpreter from a young age. I could speak Cree before English. As I went along, I learned a lot of the good things that she knew, and one of the things was respect. I always share that with our young people today, and people of all walks of life, not just young people, because that attitude today, it's up and down.

Basic training in Kingston was a real eye-opener for me. I was posted to 731 Communication Squadron in Shilo and was responsible for all basic communications. I was in the line trade. I earned my paratrooper wings in Rivers, Manitoba. Then I was asked to go to officer training in Chilliwack. I had a good talk with myself and my wife at the time. She was in university; she's a teacher. I said I wanted to learn what's on the ground first before I become a leader. I'd like to walk the walk before I go to that school. That's a learning curve that I took at the time. Then I went to Europe for four years, posted at Fort Henry, Soest, Germany, which was another eye-opener for me.

I was posted to 4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group in Lahr, in the Black Forest. After three years I came home to 742 Comm Squadron, in Cold Lake. At the time I was posted, I think I was drafted because of my sports ability. I played basketball, hockey, football, everything. I don't think I was posted, but drafted, I always tell the commanders, but that's my humour with them.

If you have a healthy mind, body, soul and spirit, the confidence you build from that lets your actions speak for you, not your words. We say this in our language.

In the military, you step forward and volunteer. That's why I still volunteer today. I have the utmost respect for those who are serving today. I call them heroes, just like my late uncles and mentors. I've always been proud to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces. I enjoyed those years and have used those experiences to meet the demands of my professional and day-to-day lives.

With our time together, I'd like to give you a brief overview of the friendship centre movement and the NAFC. I'd like to share some of the program support. Of course, time permitting, I'll do my best to respond to your questions.

I would like to share some facts to set the context for the work of the friendship centres movement.

They began in the 1950s. That's where I was helped, raised and born, where I worked—volunteered—as a young person: at the friendship centre in Slave Lake.

Friendship centres help urban indigenous people access the vital services that they need to succeed in urban settings across Canada. Friendship centres understand the challenges facing our communities are unique. I don't know if there is a picture in front of you of the 122 friendship centres in Canada and the north. Why we share this, that big picture, is that when we look at gaps in services, these small centres have that information, but who do they go to with it? An example would be when somebody knocks on the door and says, “I would like help.” We notice in the food banks they'll come forward.

Veterans, especially our indigenous veterans, sometimes don't want to speak about their past. They don't want to come in and talk about it. I'm going to jump the gun and just go on straight. My past work here recently is as the director of a treatment centre. I didn't know that I had two veterans. There's no sign that says, “Are you a veteran?” From a health perspective, all applications today should have that on them. We know that right away in the justice system because that's part of the history that goes with it, but with regard to the health and wellness and that, there's nothing that asks if someone is a veteran, be they indigenous or non-indigenous.

As the director of a treatment centre, I found that, through conversations and going through different holistic...whatever we're sharing, something will trigger him or her, and it will come out, “Guess what. I was there.” It puts us back focusing where we should be. I've lived this, I've survived this and we know about this from the communications and everything that's in the papers today.

The last one that I'll share openly is with regard to the jails, the halfway homes. I'm finding out later in my travels that there were people in there who never shared, and they're back on the streets. Two I met recently, one in Vancouver and one here.

I also do accreditation. I follow up accreditation programs and do evaluating and that. I asked the young man sitting there if he was veteran, and he said, “Who are you, a cop or a social worker?” I said, “You have to respect me, and just listen to me for two seconds.” “Why don't they build something right where we're sitting here? There are eight of us. Why can't they put a temporary residence here? We like this. It's where we grew up.” I said, “You'll have to talk to the city”, but who can I get to support and share this with? This is in Vancouver. I come to Edmonton, and it's the same thing over again. It's repetitive. I have to trust someone with what I'm doing, where I'm going and the decision I'm making within that, building that conversation as I go.

Across the country, friendship centres provide culturally appropriate services for indigenous people living in urban centres and have become a place for indigenous and non-indigenous people to come together and share traditions.

That's the other thing. We're all blessed with a skill. The Creator has given us some gifts. We've never really challenged people to find that gift, whatever it may be. It could be art. It could be singing. It could be music. You start building that relationship with people from the front lines. If they can survive there, they can survive anywhere. They've been through the whole process and how it's written and how it's looked at.

Friendship centres are a significant part of Canada's social infrastructure backbone, with more than two million client contacts. We do keep track of our traffic across Canada and in the north, of the people coming through our doors, and it's amazing the numbers that we get. We're supposed to be providing services for this, and at times we are lacking the resources ourselves, but we'll go out of our way beyond what we have and visit extra groups and parties.

We are a non-profit, rather than a politically representative organization, and we enjoy a productive relationship with many other indigenous organizations. We're not in competition here with our indigenous veterans in Alberta, in Saskatchewan. They're all over. I've just come back from Wainwright. This is my sixth year participating in a parade with the lieutenant-governors of Saskatchewan and Alberta. We're not in competition. We have to start working together. We have to come together for the betterment of all, not just the different organizations.

Many indigenous people prefer cultural and heritage-based services that are offered outside the mainstream medical system. This often includes harbouring a more holistic view of mental health and its treatments. We speak of mental health when we do an assessment, which I've just done not too long ago, and there is help needed. Right now, we're studying the psychological part of our indigenous way of getting our elders—they've been doing this for years—speaking in a cultural, holistic manner when it comes to psychology. We just have to do a little more work in doing that.

With Health Canada and Alberta Health we'll be presenting this again. I've been doing some presentations to Alberta. I'm a co-chair with another colleague from Treaty 6. I sit on the Alberta Health—it's a wellness group—elders group for Treaties 6, 7 and 8. I just went through a process with two other doctors of interviewing six doctors, for a doctor for northern Alberta to serve in that capacity.

In interviewing these doctors from all over the world who are coming in to understand our communities in the north, I'm not questioning all their learning, all their qualifications. “Do you understand the community, what it's all about? What do you have as resources?”

We have found that our people are sent out from treatment or anything else to go to see a psychologist and so on. That psychologist is 180 miles away. Who can afford it? We're building different capacities in our community now. This is where the friendship centre comes in. We're going to start doing this and we have started in many areas.

Quebec has a model up north that's awesome. We're trying to take off. Halifax will be working on their new facility and this will be part of it.

Many indigenous people prefer cultural- and heritage-based services offered outside of the mainstream medical system. Friendship centres support culturally safe delivery of these much-needed services in innovative ways.

3:40 p.m.

Representative, National Association of Friendship Centres

Leland MacLeod

Are we doing all right for time?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

We'll give you another minute and then we'll go to questions.

3:45 p.m.

Representative, National Association of Friendship Centres

Leland MacLeod

We have a few more pages. Maybe we should jump to the recommendations that we're going to provide.

In conclusion, senators and standing committee members, the NAFC makes the following recommendations.

We recommend that the federal government support the NAFC in partnership with other indigenous veteran associations for a national needs assessment of indigenous veterans; that the needs assessment determine the needs of veterans, both younger and older, and determine if these needs require all-nations indigenous veteran services to be offered to indigenous veterans across Canada; that the federal government provide financial support to friendship centres in the delivery of programs and services to veterans' widows and their families; and that through financial contributions the federal government enable the NAFC and the provincial-territorial associations of our movement to participate in veterans' policy and program directions.

The friendship centre movement and the NAFC look forward to working with the Government of Canada and opposition parties to improve the lives of indigenous veterans in Canada, which will be achieved through core funding investments in friendship centres so that they continue to have the capacity to operate and to meet the needs of their communities, as well as looking at ways their friendship centres can expand the current successful programs that support veterans and indigenous people.

Thank you for allowing me and Mr. Wally Sinclair the opportunity to speak. Mr. Sinclair and I look forward to addressing any questions you have.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

We'll start with Ms. Wagantall for six minutes.

September 27th, 2018 / 3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I want to thank you so much for coming today.

I want to mention that for me, as a new member of Parliament, this study was put forward by my colleagues in the NDP. It's an excellent opportunity for me to grow my understanding. I do appreciate that you said “people to people”, because I need a lot grace. You're going to have to put up with me while I ask you a whole bunch of questions. I really do appreciate that you're here.

Before I go forward with this, Mr. Chair, I would like to move the motion that I put forward and was handed out by the clerk, I believe, in a timely fashion.

I move:

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs undertake a study, over 18 meetings, regarding the anti-malaria drug commonly known as mefloquine, Mefliam, Lariam and other brand names. Beginning with the first use of the drug distributed to CAF members through to present day. The study will consider all aspects of the use of mefloquine et al. by the CAF, including but not limited to: distribution, pricing, clinical testing, dosing, follow-up, side effects, a review of the latest research, a comparison with the experience of our allies and other related topics. The findings of this study are to be reported the House.

With the testimony today by Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire at National Defence, he reiterated a lot of what he has said at this committee. He is on record with regard to mefloquine that as a commanding officer he had to take this drug when he was in Rwanda. He said outright that it damaged his mind. It damaged his gut. It damaged his ability to lead, to where he had his staff watching him. He requested permission to quit using this drug. He was contacted and said that the quickest response ever by the higher-ups told him to continue or he would be court-martialled for a self-inflicted wound.

At this committee, I then asked him if we should study this further? He said,“No, you should just get rid of this drug.” We have him testifying again. We have had testimony at this committee from individuals who have suffered from mefloquine toxicity, and the rallies that have taken place on the Hill. We know what is going on with our allies with regard to this drug. It has impacted all levels of our armed forces. We hear from our veterans who have been required to take it right up until Afghanistan.

For that reason, this is a priority that we need to study. I request that we pass this motion.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Mr. Eyolfson.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB

I move that the debate be now adjourned.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Can I speak to that?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

It's a dilatory motion. The chair has no choice. He has to call a vote.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

We'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Mrs. Wagantall, you have the floor for the remaining part of your six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Thank you.

As we still have this opportunity to go ahead, the friendship centres are a wonderful idea. Do you right now, within the friendship system, have a way of identifying veterans when they come to you?

3:50 p.m.

Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

Wally Sinclair

In Alberta we just started with that, interviewing the community and finding out where the elders are. With the Alberta portion that I'm part of, we have a list now of the communities. They're coming forward, but we're still missing those on the streets and wherever.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Right.

3:50 p.m.

Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

Wally Sinclair

We have a process, and we're going to make a motion at our national meeting to put it forward nationally. This was the first step here.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Do you have any kind of resource list from the armed forces as to who has served historically?

3:50 p.m.

Board Member, National Association of Friendship Centres

Wally Sinclair

Yes. I've been a member of the Legion now for just about 50 years. I still work in that capacity with our Lac La Biche branch and at different Legions in following up with that. Rarely do we see an indigenous veteran going into a Legion and participating or sitting at any table. I was our vice-president a few years back, I think because nobody else ran—just to make a joke—and I'm most respectful towards the Legion and their role across Canada. There are a lot of good things going on, but there are still gaps in the system.

There's a Legion paper out, and I'd like to see an indigenous Legion paper out, not to create more but to communicate in there on what some of the gaps in the system are. If we can get that rolling, that would be part of our agenda coming up at the national meeting.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Okay.

I just received a book written within Saskatchewan, and listed in it are all of the Métis veterans. Are you familiar with that book?