Evidence of meeting #25 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was museum.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lieutenant-Colonel  Retired) Jacques Borne (As an Individual
James D. McMullin  Major (retired), As an Individual
Sean Smith  Master Corporal (retired), As an Individual
Lee Windsor  Associate Professor of History, Gregg Centre for the Studies of War and Society, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual
Corinne MacLellan  Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel, The Halifax Rifles

4:20 p.m.

Associate Professor of History, Gregg Centre for the Studies of War and Society, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual

Dr. Lee Windsor

Thank you for the question, Mrs. Lalonde.

This is a complicated issue, I think, because of the tremendous degree.... Well, it's complicated, but not terribly.

I think the core issue—and perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my opening remarks—is that there's a tremendous amount of prior public knowledge about the First World War and the Second World War in our society. People know about them. People are familiar with Vimy. People are familiar with Juno Beach. In part, they're familiar with them because in Remembrance Week, the news media outlets carry stories from these places. The collective memory of those events endures, even as the generations pass on.

We don't do that kind of media engagement or education work to explain why Canadians deployed into Bihac or Drvar, or why they went to the Medak Pocket. Certain people know—people with family connections, people with special interest—but it's not mainstream knowledge. It's not part of Canadian curriculum.

One of the issues we're working on here at UNB's Gregg Centre is to try to find ways to integrate it into curriculum in every province. The simple way to do it is really an easy way to do it. That's why I mentioned, at the end of my remarks, that education is really the key. If people don't remember, if we don't have a national collective memory of this, we have to build something from scratch. We have to build a national education program, because otherwise there's nothing to remember, except by that small number of people who endured this.

I guess that's the heart of it. I think the work we all have to do together—those of us who are interested in recognizing modern veterans—is to identify good practices for public education. That maybe is the biggest difference with the way that we used to do things in commemoration.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marie-France Lalonde Liberal Orléans, ON

You talked about one of the projects about education.

Are there other projects that you or other colleagues are working on that would advance remembrance?

4:25 p.m.

Associate Professor of History, Gregg Centre for the Studies of War and Society, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual

Dr. Lee Windsor

Yes, indeed.

One of the challenges, too, is that the collective memory of the two world wars is so strong. There's plenty of history that's been written about these things. There's plenty of access to the historical records and to documents, and to the participants in those tremendous and dramatic events. In the case of modern service, many of the official records are, necessarily, still classified, and the numbers of my colleagues who research and write in the area of modern service are far fewer. There are not as many books on the bookshelves for people to pick up something and learn about these events. The information available on the Internet is pretty thin.

One thing we're looking at doing, both in the commemoration advisory group and here at UNB, is to try to find ways to get more documents out there, more evidence, more testimonies, more interviews with people like Master Corporal Smith.

I'm going to have to follow up with you afterwards Master Corporal, and Major MacLellan as well, and Mr. Borne. These are all people whose memories of service we need to capture. If we can't release official documents, maybe we can get more video testimony with veterans made available, so that students can look at that in the classroom, and the general public can use it too.

In my opinion, as an educator now myself—this is my second profession—that's where my personal focus is going to be, and the focus of our team here.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marie-France Lalonde Liberal Orléans, ON

Thank you very much for this.

I'm going to end with you, because I believe I have a few minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

You have about 30 seconds.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marie-France Lalonde Liberal Orléans, ON

Well, I will thank you all for coming and joining us today.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you, MP Lalonde.

Next we have MP Desilets, for six minutes, please.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, esteemed colleagues.

I wish to say hello to all our guests. Once again, I congratulate them for their service to our country.

Mr. Borne, congratulations again because, if I am not mistaken, the National Field of Honour Cemetery in Point-Claire was designated a national historic site of Canada in 2009.

Can you confirm that Sergeant Léo Major is buried at the National Field of Honour?

4:25 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

Sgt. Léo Major was buried at the National Field of Honour Cemetery. This soldier, who has been called Quebec's Rambo, was in the Régiment de la Chaudière and later joined the Royal 22e Régiment.

After serving in World War II, he served in the Korean War. During World War II, he single-handedly liberated a village with his special tactics. He did not always follow the rules, but he always reached his objective. That is why a special street at the National Field of Honour is named after our Quebec Rambo.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Can you tell me what Mr. Major's grave looks like? Is there something that sets it apart or is it like all the others?

4:25 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

I do not know, but, usually, whether a veteran was a general or a simple soldier, a plaque is always placed on the lawn. Everyone receives the same treatment, whether they are a soldier, general or hero.

I will look into it and get back to you.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Do you know if there are other places in Quebec like the National Honour Field of Pointe-Claire?

4:25 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

No, I do not believe so.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

As far as you know, there are none in Canada either?

4:25 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

In Canada, there is the cemetery in Ottawa.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

That is the only one then?

4:25 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

Yes.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

The National Field of Honour is nevertheless impressive. More than 20,000 people are interred there. That is a lot.

On another note, can you tell us what the presentations you give to students are like?

4:30 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

Veterans' Week is an annual event. The Quebec Veterans Foundation gives me materials to hand out to these students.

My presentations are quite popular, because the professors find that it is interesting having these discussions during Veterans' Week. I bring guests with me to the presentation. The students participate in discussions and ask many questions about the wars. It goes very well.

Unfortunately, the last guest who attended my presentations, Corporal François Dupéré, passed away recently. He was a hero of the Afghanistan conflict. You can't imagine how popular he was when we introduced him and he spoke about his experience in Afghanistan.

It is important to educate our young people so we can continue holding our commemorations.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You are speaking to a former principal. I completely agree with you.

I would also like to know what youth find interesting about these presentations.

4:30 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

The adventure.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

It's the adventure they find interesting?

4:30 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

Yes.

It's fine to say that we will fight for our country, but that is not the only reason. We also enlist for the adventure, to have a different experience. We want to experience something other than civilian life.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

A few years ago, the army had a good slogan. If my memory serves me well, it was “There's No Life Like It”.

4:30 p.m.

LCol Jacques Borne

Yes, that's right.

Young people are influenced by movies like Rambo, starring the actor Sylvester Stallone, and by what they see on television. They want to have a new adventure.