Veterans Affairs Committee on June 7th, 2021

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and yes, you have been very liberal with the time. I certainly appreciate that on behalf of those who are here today.

I also want to say, Mr. Chair, thank you so much. I know the scheduling at this time of year can be tight, but having all four of these witnesses here today for effectively an hour and 45 minutes is critical.

Mr. Cousineau, I want to go right to you. Throughout the committee's study over the last two sessions, we've hear about the difficulty that has come up with developing a “made in Canada” national service standard. The CGSB has pulled back, Veterans Affairs has had their input and we've heard from other witnesses that there was no agreement. Everybody was trying to come together and things eventually broke down.

I want to ask you, sir, how we get to a Canadian national standard. What does that look like?

[Medric Cousineau]

Thank you, Mr. Brassard.

I'm thankful this committee is meeting virtually. It means that Thai and I do not have to run the gauntlet of getting from here to Ottawa. We would have had to face no less than six major regulatory hurdles from planes, trains, automobiles, airlines, hotels and motels.

Ladies and gentlemen, you and the committee are in the position to significantly advance the rights of Canadians and veterans with disabilities across this country, now and well into the future. We desperately need a national standard that protects disabled individuals and their service dogs while providing oversight, stopping unscrupulous or unqualified businesses from capitalizing on a perceived opportunity and protecting the public from abuses.

You must ensure the establishment of a Canadian federal standard for service dogs, but you cannot—and I repeat cannot—invite back to the table any individuals or groups who deliberately sabotaged the first attempt at national standards. A self-appointed subversive group took CGSB's work product to the Standards Council of Canada and succeeded in creating such a toxic environment that the impasse that CGSB was confronted with was an inevitable conclusion. They set out to derail the process and they succeeded.

Even more stunning is that the deputy minister of VAC was apprised in writing of the impending implosion months before it happened. He acknowledged this and did nothing to prevent what transpired. That may seem like a shocking position. I will be forwarding to the clerk this pile of supporting emails as an annex to these remarks. I wrote those emails. You need to submit an ATIP request on the Standards Council of Canada and the folks on the complaint committee. They have forfeited any right to be a part of this process. Some of those same individuals are attempting to use a private enterprise to produce a standard that they want to offer to the government as a “done deal” solution. You absolutely cannot let that happen. Do not fall for that. You need to know the facts.

Third party objective standards should pair the federal offices of Accessibility Standards Canada with the standard experts at CGSB, unimpeded by obstructionists, to produce a standard that will be adopted at the federal level. CGSB has produced a standard. There's little work to be done. Provinces need to become involved to provide unimpeded interprovincial reciprocity.

The standard needs to encompass three parts. The first is a universal public access test. The second, which will be provided by subject matter experts, is the skills and testing for each subset of dogs. The third is the SRO regulatory oversight piece. Danielle Forbes referred to this in her testimony when she spoke about what is required when you become a member of an organization like ADI.

The short version is that we have no national standards, even though Seamus O'Regan pledged in the House of Commons just after April 18 of 2018 that we would have national service dog standards by the fall of that year. To date, nothing has been done.

Does that clarify things a little, John?

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

It does. Thank you for that, Medric.

Medric, Phil Ralph was here from Wounded Warriors, and he spoke highly of the work that you and your spouse, Jocelyn, have done. You also developed the Wounded Warriors Canada prescriber guidelines. In a minute, can you tell us how that integrates with the national standards that you spoke about?

[Medric Cousineau]

The national standards and the prescriber guidelines virtually go hand in hand. I helped develop those with Kristine Aanderson, a registered psychologist from Alberta, because we were confronted with getting prescription letters that were completely useless, such as “So and so needs an emotional support animal.”

I'm sorry; that's no good. It was the same with service dogs. We need to know task training. If you review the tables and the decision-making trees in the prescriber guidelines, you will find out that if you take a properly written prescription and pair it with a service dog school that can produce the required output to meet the terms of the prescription, you then have the actual piece that you need. That's really important.

They were basically put in place so that medical professionals...and I don't want to knock them, but they don't understand what these dogs do. I go back to that question. If you haven't asked the right question, how the heck can you get the answer? How can you say there's no efficacy when you really don't even know what they do? That's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Chair. We understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Up next we have MP Samson for six minutes, please.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses today for their presentation. It's so important. We only have four meetings, so we need to get to task as quickly as possible. We have key people to help us there.

I want to welcome Medric, a constituent of mine, whom I've known for about six years, and thank him for the conversations we've had when he had his service dog, Thai, with him. I personally experienced some individual supports and how the dog was able to calm the situation and deal with any issues. Medric was able to tell me about the nightmares and how the dog was able to help him, and even wake him up before an event would take place.

I want to thank him and his wife, Jocelyn, of course, for their work co-funding Paws Fur Thought, which is extremely important.

I'd like to share with the committee that Medric played a big role in having Dominion Command, at the convention in Edmonton, Alberta, approve a resolution allowing for 25% of the puppy funds, to help. As well, he just received—I believe it was in February—the Meritorious Service Medal from the Governor General. He indicated his book, which I have a copy of, and he signed it personally for me. I've had the opportunity to read it. It has very important information on that front, and I thank him because that helps many people. As he indicated, it's about helping people.

I have a number of questions, but time is moving. I know Mr. Brassard asked one that I might have asked about that study, so I won't go there. The main question I want to touch on is about what the consequences would be of using the adopted standards from Wounded Warriors. If Veterans Affairs were to adopt those tomorrow morning, what would be the advantages and disadvantages?

[Medric Cousineau]

We could actually take what the Government of Canada is currently doing through the veteran and family well-being fund, which is supporting Wounded Warriors Canada's service dog program, although it's a very small undertaking. Because Wounded Warriors Canada uses the prescriber guidelines, their programs have to be either ADI or compliant with any provincial regulatory body, which currently is B.C., Alberta and Nova Scotia.

It's interesting to note that Nova Scotia did not reinvent fire. They absolutely went out to B.C. and said, “We want to use the standard and the work that you've done. How do we do this?” B.C. said they would just sublicense it to them, and they did. Literally, they brought the entire program across the country.

Now, it is key to note that this is the public access portion that is primarily covered in the B.C. legislation. However, the legislation has been upheld by the B.C. human rights courts. It's a model that works. You can literally take an off-the-shelf solution. What does that look like? The Government of Canada pledges to Wounded Warriors an enhanced funding commitment over a five-year period. That will allow the underlying programs to ramp up their capacity.

If you told us that you want service dogs tomorrow and you were going to fund them, we'd all look at you and say, “Isn't that wonderful. Where are we getting them?” There is a lead time. We use that lead time to solidify the position that Wounded Warriors programs will adopt the national standards that are developed. All of that work has been done at CGSB. The most frustrating part is to know how close we were and to see it explode literally on the goal line when we went to push it over. It causes me to lose sleep at night, because this is what has impeded this program.

Keep in mind that the standards blew up in April of 2018. That was three years ago. Please tell me what's been done. I think the answer is “not much”. We could take a solution and literally start implementation as soon as tomorrow morning if the committee could push this football over the goal line.

Thanks, Darrell.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Medric, many people have said how important it is to achieve national standards for service dogs. In the minute I have left, can you give me your personal opinion, please?

[Medric Cousineau]

If we had national service dog standards, I would have the same response no matter which airline I phoned. Every single airline I phone has a different response to what is required for me to fly with my service dog. Even though there are things like accessibility laws and disability acts across this country, it is an unregulated, uncontrolled patchwork with no interprovincial reciprocity. That means if your driver's licence in Nova Scotia is good in B.C. and vice versa, it should be the same for service dog standards.

These are imperative to protect the handlers and to protect the public at large. Both sides need to be protected. This is a problem that affects the entire country, not just disabled service dog handlers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for that information, Medric.

It's a good point, because if we had the Nova Scotia act, which Medric played a very important role in, right across the country, it would help it a lot.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Up next is MP Desilets for six minutes, please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all our guests and say hello to my esteemed colleagues.

My first question is for Mr. Cousineau.

Let me start by thanking you for your service, Mr. Cousineau.

You ended your opening remarks with a question for us. Since that door is wide open, I would like to put the same question to you.

Do you think your country's response is sufficient?

[Medric Cousineau]

Thank you.

I will answer in English, as what I have to say is very important.

First off, it is our country. It is every single one of us who is on this call today, with the exception of Ms. O'Brien, and I'm sure she's right there with us in spirit.

We need to do better for our disabled individuals, and I'm going to harken back to that point where I said 30% to 50% of the people are treatment resistant. That means that the very best pharmacology and interventions that VAC is currently employing leaves—let's just cut it in half—40% of the disabled PTSD population as treatment resistant. Rather than explore options that would allow us to get relief from the hell that we're in, they just throw up their hands and say, “I'm sorry. We need more proof. We need more efficacy.” MP Doherty has proved it. MP Samson has talked about it, and there are others in the room today, listening to this, who have seen what these amazing dogs can do.

There is absolutely no reason to look at them as being anything other than a wheelchair for my mind. It is my medical assistive device. I know some people do not like it when I refer to my floppy-eared, brown-eyed, loving, wet-nosed partner as a medical assistive device. However, when she's off duty, she is my goofy girl. I love her to bits. When she's on, she is on and she works.

What we all need to ask ourselves is this. For the people who are suffering, who are treatment resistant and really need that kind of help to get out of the hell that I know they live in, it's available. It is available to this committee to push that forward, because you have the power to say, “I'm sorry; our answer has not been good enough.”

It is not what the people like me have to say, who are suffering a hell, like I say, that you cannot even begin to imagine. If you talk to Dani Forbes, Mrs. MacKenzie or Ms. O'Brien, they are going to tell you what these handlers have experienced, but do you know what? Don't bother to ask them. Don't even bother asking me, or the hundreds of people like me who have a service dog.

Do you know who you really need to ask? Go and ask their family members. They're the ones who live with us. They're the ones who know what it's really like. Ask them. I can guarantee you, those answers—and I have some of them and I can forward them—will prove to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we can and must do more.

Hopefully, that helps.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It helps me somewhat.

You talked a lot about service dogs, and that is good, as it is today's topic of discussion.

But how can we take action as elected members? What concrete action would you like us to take? Should we ask for more money, implement national standards and apply pressure for more service dogs to be available?

[Medric Cousineau]

In September 2016, I addressed an email to Veterans Affairs Canada, which I will forward to the clerk, and it was called “The Service Dog Tsunami”. I outlined the implications of not having national standards and the size of the supply and demand problem. Jim Barrett, professor emeritus of mathematics from the Royal Military College of Canada, worked on the supply-demand equation, and his answer to me, after six solid months was that the equation was unsolvable, but that did not mitigate our obligation for doing the very best we can.

That's what we have to do. You combine the money, which is the political will—and I'm sorry—with the commitment to provide standards, and we get on with this. That's enough. Rome has burned; Nero has fiddled.

Thank you.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

Do you think we have enough service dogs to meet the needs in Quebec and in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Provide a very brief answer, please.

[Medric Cousineau]

Absolutely not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's brief.

You have a few seconds left.

[Medric Cousineau]

There are reasons that we partnered with certain schools in the United States, and they've done a yeoman's job in providing dogs. My girl comes from a program in Kansas.

This problem is huge. Unfortunately, certain industry players have been too busy trying to carve out their niche so that they can literally say that they are the ones who provided the national standard, or they did this or they did that. Do you know what? I don't care. What we need is a solution for the thousands of people who need the kind of help that we're talking about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

We now go to MP Blaney for six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank everyone for your testimony here today.

For me, this is a really important issue. I've worked with veterans who have been denied housing because there is no national standard. People say that it's just their pet, but the reality I hear from those veterans is that they can't walk out that door unless their “pet” is with them. That's what really concerns me.

When I look at all of these challenges, I think they're all important. We need to have a standard, so that people can get on a plane with their service animal and be able to travel as they need to. We need to make sure that we don't have veterans choosing to be homeless because they can't find a place to live that will allow them to bring their service dogs. This is my challenge. It's different from province to province to territory.

I'm just wondering if I could come to you first, Mr. Cousineau. Could you just speak to what the lack of this support really means for veterans?

I think you've highlighted it perfectly. These dogs fundamentally change your life and allow you to have one, which, as somebody who served our country, should be absolutely necessary. What would having some sort of format that makes space for these important service dogs to be recognized do for veterans across our country?