Veterans Affairs Committee on June 14th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I call this meeting to order.

First of all, welcome back to Mr. Ruff, who is joining us here today for this meeting.

Welcome also to our newest permanent member, MP Zuberi. Welcome, sir. We're glad to have you on board.

This is meeting number 31 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Today's meeting is taking place, as usual, in the hybrid format.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 27, 2020, the committee is resuming its study on service dogs for veterans.

Welcome to all of the witnesses who have taken time to join us today.

I'll introduce all of the witnesses, starting with Sergeant William Webb, who is appearing as an individual. From Meliora Service Dogs, we have Marc Lapointe, certified trainer, and Carl Fleury. From the Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services, we have Joanne Moss, chief executive officer.

Each witness will receive five minutes for opening remarks, and after that we'll proceed to rounds of questions.

I will give you a one-minute signal when your five minutes are about up, and you will see me make this gesture throughout. I apologize in advance, but my role is often to interrupt and keep the time. I apologize in advance if I have to cut anybody off, but with opening remarks, I tend to give folks an opportunity to wrap up their thoughts.

Starting us off this afternoon is Sergeant Webb.

The next five minutes are all yours, sir.

[William Webb, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm sorry to interrupt. I apologize; I'm doing it already.

Mr. Desilets, you have your hand up.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I apologize for interrupting Mr. Webb. However, I have a technical question, Mr. Chair. Since the meeting started 45 minutes late, what time do you expect it to end?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We do have runway. I will survey the group while we get started here to see if we can all stay for the full two hours and I will come back to you, Mr. Desilets.

Mr. Webb, the floor is now yours for five minutes.

[William Webb]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I apologize to the Bloc member. I'm going to be reading extremely fast, so the translators are probably going to have a hard time keeping up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Mr. Webb, before you do that, it is a challenge, so please don't worry too much about the time. Just take your time with your notes.

Thank you.

[William Webb]

I'm not a service dog trainer or a board member of a service dog organization, nor am I affiliated with any service dog companies' operations. I am an end-user.

Upon my release from the CAF in 2016, I relocated to British Columbia. This is where my difficulties began with other service dog providers, local businesses, government agencies, and local, civic and provincial governments. This is when the roadblocks to having a service dog began daily.

At that time in B.C., the government was lobbied by a single service dog provider, ADI/IGDF, and the new service dog act was implemented exactly at the same time that the Alberta act was implemented. Alberta and B.C. have nearly identical acts. All of these organizations were part of the CGSB process and did not disclose this to the B.C. government or the CGSB.

I was being excluded entry to public buildings and most services because my service dog was not from ADI or IGDF. All your witnesses have gone on to praise how good the B.C. test is. I would like to point out that my service dog was required to pass this test when it was a puppy to see if it would actually be entered into the program. The test in B.C. to certify your service dog costs $200. However, the B.C. test is an obedience test. It does not assess my service dog's ability to do what it was trained for. Those veterans or the public who get a service dog from ADI/IGDF preferred member providers are not required to pay this fee.

The former speaker of the house of the B.C. legislature and current MLA Linda Reid is the president of BC and Alberta Guide Dogs, an ADI/IGDF member organization, and MLA Scott Hamilton was on the board of directors of PADS, the Pacific Assistance Dogs Society. Both were involved with the committee making sweeping changes to the act in B.C. Subsequently, these two providers were the only approved providers in B.C. under the act. There are currently three. The director of corporate policy for B.C., Toby Louie, wrote the act and wrote policy for PADS as well.

As you can see, there is a huge conflict of interest, as no one involved with these service dog providers recused themselves from any debates or work on this act. This is a perfect example of how these service dog providers insert themselves into government policy.

The current Minister of Public Safety in B.C., MLA Mike Farnworth, has stated that the service dog act in B.C. is voluntary. However, if someone wishes to be afforded all the benefits of the act, they need to have a service dog ID card for B.C. On the back of this card, it states, “is in possession of a certified guide dog or service dog and is granted access rights to public places and tenancy rights”. The Canadian charter already affords us these rights. The Province also states that it does not certify service dogs; however, on the front of the ID card, it says, "certified by the Province of British Columbia".

This past Christmas my service dog became ill and suddenly died. Currently I am second-guessing whether to get another service dog—second-guessing because of the predatory behaviour of service dog providers and the restrictions in B.C. Many service dog providers in this country are predatory to some degree and are only looking to advance their agendas. If the veteran is the purpose for these psychiatric dogs, it is the veterans who are consistently stuck in the middle of the fight between providers. Ten years ago, there were only about eight service dog providers in Canada. There are now about 132, so yo you tell me it's not about the money.

One of the biggest difficulties facing veterans is the misuse, misinformation, and downright dishonesty in the terminology used by this unregulated industry in Canada. Phil Ralph of Wounded Warriors Canada stated in his testimony that their standard falls in line with ADI, which is accredited. Ms. Forbes also stated that national service dogs were accredited by Imagine Canada. I would like to point out that Imagine Canada only accredits charitable organizations' operations; they do not accredit production, standards, or training of service dogs. Sheila O'Brien was asked about ADI accreditation and stated that ADI is reviewed peer to peer, not by an independent third body. There are no internationally accredited providers anywhere.

This is misleading not only to the public but also to governments, and when MPs, MLAs or MPPs use this language, it only reinforces the misinformation.

Service dog providers in Canada have inserted themselves into all levels of government to press their agendas, and some MPs—even on this committee—through advocacy, whether directly or indirectly, are not doing the veteran a service. On the contrary, it's a disservice.

Our member of Parliament for South Surrey—White Rock, MP Findlay, is the treasurer and a direct board member of BC & Alberta Guide Dogs, which is an ADI member, pressing to make their standard—which isn't published or available to the public—the law of the land.

Phil Ralph also referred to the ADI standard. Nowhere in the act is there a standard for B.C. In fact, the only standard available on the ADI site is a code of conduct for member organizations. The ADI/IGDF standard is proprietary, and they do not release this to the public or to anyone. It's for their members only.

The director general of policy and research at VAC, Ms. Garrett-Baird, stated that the CGSB study failed because members could not come to consensus. I would have to disagree with this assessment completely. The fact that the CGSB was shut down for a time and investigated because of this process is alarming. The service dog industry cannot be relied upon to make a national standard. There is too much animosity among providers for them to play nice in the sandbox, and there is too much money to be lost with these personalities.

Currently the Human Research Standards Organization, which is accredited by the SCC, the Standards Council of Canada, is working on the development of a national standard. VAC was invited to participate in the study but stated that they were not able to participate. This leads me to believe that the department plans to do something different. VAC needs to stay out of this independent process completely and allow it to proceed unimpeded.

MP Wagantall asked a question last week: Where did Wounded Warriors get the professional ability to determine whether or not they comply with standards, and how is Wounded Warriors qualified to do that? This question was not answered by Mr. Cousineau, so I'm going to answer it now: Wounded Warriors Canada is not qualified to determine compliance of standards. Wounded Warriors Canada is not a service dog provider. It has no trainers or master dog trainers. It only provides funding to third party providers, and it is not in a position to oversee or front a standards process.

I would like to thank the member for North Island—Powell River for mentioning my difficulties of being homeless with my service dog. On January 1, 2016, the B.C. legislature put into force the B.C. Guide Dog and Service Dog Act. This act does does not recognize any service dog teams or providers who were not trained or who were not affiliated with the ADI or IGDF, and it is in complete violation of the veterans charter of rights, the Canadian Human Rights Act and the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

This act prevents me from obtaining housing in B.C. and continues to be a huge barrier for veterans who need housing, as well as a barrier to accessing public spaces. I am not allowed access to any provincial offices, to travel on board passenger decks of BC Ferries with my service dog or to take public transit. This is one of the main driving forces that forced me, in May 2018, onto the streets. It was because I don't fit the criteria for the B.C. Guide Dog and Service Dog Act.

Mr. Cousineau stated that the B.C. act has been upheld by the Canadian Human Rights Commission when in fact it has failed several times, with human rights complaints against BC Ferries, residential tenancy, denial of access at Costco, and also my own denial of public access. However, because the B.C. commission makes everyone sign NDAs, none of these cases can be discussed.

The B.C. act states that the B.C. Human Rights Code will prevail over the service dog act, and it has on several occasions. That clause allows the act to get around any human rights violations, so the act is in complete misrepresentation of what it is meant to be providing.

Anyone.... I'm just about done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mr. Webb.

[William Webb]

In B.C. anyone can have a service dog, because the B.C. certification is only an obedience test, and a note from your family doctor or nurse practitioner is the only thing that's required.

Few people are aware that the psychiatric service dog program was first initiated in the late 1990s, or just after 9/11, by the Honourable Elijah Harper. It was not the national service dogs, as stated by Ms. O'Brien. It was Elijah who was instrumental as a senior member and elder of the Red Sucker Lake Band in Manitoba. It was Elijah's foresight and vision. He saw the coming storm and the suffering of veterans coming back from their first rotations, so why this committee has not invited the two largest service dog providers in Canada is baffling to me.

There is currently an unofficial national standard published in Canada. This standard was written by the former director of standards for the Standards Council of Canada, Michel Bourassa. I can talk about that in questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

[William Webb]

In closing, I ask that the committee take all of the information from service dog providers with a grain of salt. Do not rely on the infighting within this multi-million-dollar unregulated industry. Yes, veterans get dogs for free, but somebody has to be paid to rear, feed, kennel and train these dogs.

There are two camps in the service dog world in Canada: the ADI/IGDF and the MSAR standard.

Thank you. That's all I have to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Mr. Webb.

Up next, from Meliora Service Dogs, we have—I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly—Mr. Lapointe and Carl Fleury.

I believe, Mr. Lapointe, you're going to make the remarks.

[Marc Lapointe, Certified Trainer, Meliora Service Dogs]

Yes, I am.

Can everyone hear me well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We can. The next five minutes are yours, sir.

[Marc Lapointe]

Okay.

Bill Webb, thank you so much for what you just said. I was in the same battle for 10 years. We need to talk, buddy, okay? We need to talk about that.

My name is Marc Lapointe. I am a Canadian Armed Forces veteran with 25 years of service and experience as both a non-commissioned and commissioned officer with the infantry, the Airborne Regiment and special forces. While serving Canada on multiple overseas deployments, I, like many other brothers and sisters in arms, suffered cumulative post-traumatic stress disorder. That led me to medically retiring from the forces in 2014.

Here with me today is Carl and his service dog India. Carl is from the board of directors of the Meliora Service Dogs organization and is here to assist me with answering any questions you may have from the perspective of a member. Not only is Carl a fellow veteran; he and India are also graduates of the program curriculum. He has begun the process to be a service dog trainer and mentor in our peer support network.

Since 2013 I have dedicated myself, personally and financially, to helping others regain hope and healing through training medical service dogs and their partners. I personally have fostered and trained more than 75 dogs and 150 medical service dog teams. I was a director for two service dog training organizations in three different countries. In 2016 I was awarded the Minister of Veterans Affairs Commendation while working with veterans and their medical service dogs. In 2017 I was approached to assist with a psychological service dog medical study completed by the University of Saskatchewan and the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction. I am one of the consultants for the university. Since the co-founding of Meliora in 2020, more than 25 veterans and retired first responders have completed the Meliora program. Some have been able to return to work, school and other self-fulfilling activities.

On the first question, about the efficacy and use of psychiatric service dogs by Canadian Armed Forces veterans, I have first-hand experience of knowing how a medical service dog helps to relieve the symptoms of PTSD. With my own personal service dog, called Bosley, and as the director of standards and training at Meliora, I meet almost every day with disabled people whose lives have been improved and sometimes saved by the partnership of medical service dogs.

Medical service dogs are meant to complement traditional medical and psychological care for a disabled person. They're not an answer to all. Not only are the dogs known to have naturally calming effects on PTSD sufferers; each medical service dog is also specifically trained for their partner's needs. Many of Meliora's trained medical service dogs have been trained to interrupt unhealthy and unwanted behaviour symptoms in their partners. They wake up their teammate from night terrors, provide comforting pressure—weight—on their partner during a crisis, assist during recovery from fear paralysis or a dissociative state, and prevent or interrupt emotional overload.

Our medical service dogs are also trained to assist their partners with other medical conditions, such as to detect and assist members in the event of a seizure, an allergic reaction, high or low blood pressure and diabetic emergencies. As our members age, the dogs are trained to retrieve objects because of mobility issues, help with balance, and carry items or medical necessities. Members with hearing impairments have medical service dogs to alert them to alarms, doorbells and people needing their attention.

Throughout my time in training medical service dogs for veterans and first responders, I've both felt and seen the incredible improvements in PTSD symptoms gained only through the medical service dog partnership. All of our medical service dog teams benefit from increased physical activity, better emotional connection to others, improved sleep, happier family relationships, reduced anxiety, a significant decrease in depression and suicidal thoughts, and a reduction in medication.

The ultimate success of a psychological medical service dog partnership is measured when that person no longer needs a service dog to navigate during their daily living activities. That's our goal. In fact, most graduates of our training program will only have one service dog, because they've already regained their independence when their dog naturally retires.

To answer question (b), the resources required by the Department of Veterans Affairs to implement access to psychiatric service dogs are the recognition of psychiatric medical service dogs within VAC and across Canada; a national registry of responsible and ethical medical service dog program providers that identifies certified dogs, users, handlers, trainers and training organizations; a common standard for training and certification of medical service dog teams across Canada; a national registry of responsible and ethical dog breeders who have been proven to breed healthy dogs with a calm temperament and appropriately long working lives; funding for the breeding, training and care of psychiatric medical service dogs for injured veterans; and training for VAC case managers about psychiatric and mobility medical service dogs for veterans, and the application process, because the case managers don't have any clue about what's going on.

Meliora is a national medical service dog training organization with members in practically every province. All of our members have stories of confrontation after our members and their fully certified medical service dogs were prevented from entering public places and buildings because their dogs were not recognized as a service animal. Provincially, Alberta, British Columbia and Nova Scotia require specific testing before they will recognize our members' medical service dogs, which, in truth and reality, is a Canine Good Citizen test. Quebec hardly ever recognizes any medical service dog unless they are used for the visually impaired.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mr. Lapointe. It would be great if you could wrap up.

[Marc Lapointe]

Oh, my God. I have a lot to do. Well, okay, I'll wrap up.

In my role as the director of certification and standards at Meliora, I have made it my duty to train the best medical service dog teams in Canada. I have set our qualification benchmark to meet and exceed the requirement of any province. Psychiatric medical service dogs must be able to perform to the highest of standards because of the nature of the injuries of their user/handler.

I believe Meliora's science-based and compassionate medical service dog team training in real-world environments is the gold standard for psychiatric medical service dog training in Canada.

I have provided the committee with the documents—

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. There isn't any French interpretation at the moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay.

Mr. Clerk, can you confirm the translation is working?

I'm going to speak for a little bit, Luc. Can you hear me being translated in French? No?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There still isn't any interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm not hearing the translation in English either, Mr. Clerk.

I can hear the English interpreter now.

Luc, as I'm talking here, is this being translated for you in French?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes, I can hear you very well now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay, good.

Sorry about that. It wouldn't be a Zoom meeting during a pandemic if we didn't have some technical problems.

I will give it back to you for final thoughts, please, Mr. Lapointe.

[Marc Lapointe]

It's two sentences. I'll just repeat what Mr. Desilets missed to make sure he gets this.

I believe Meliora's science-based and compassionate medical service dog team training in a real-world environment is the gold standard for psychiatric medical service dog training in Canada. I have provided the committee with the documents Meliora uses to train and evaluate their teams so that you can review them at your convenience.

I must emphasize the point that any standards that would be set should make compassion and empathy toward the disabled person the first priority, not money.

Thank you so much.

I would like to say hi to Mrs. Wagantall and Ms. Moss.