Evidence of meeting #31 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dogs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Bloc
5:45 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I'm going to come to you again, Bill, and then follow up with Ms. Moss.
If I understand correctly, all standards in the service dog industry, whether in Canada or globally, are applicable only to the organizations that develop them and their members' organizations. I want to make sure that I have that right.
As the other part of that question, why is it so important to have a third party organization actually review the work that is being done?
Hopefully that makes sense, Bill.
5:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, they're for that organization's input only. ADI has their standard, and it's for their members and it's not public. There's only one standard right now that is open for other industry users to use within the service dog world, and that's the Mehgan search and rescue standard for service dogs. It's on the website. It's available for people and the industry to use if they choose. Other than that, there are really none.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
5:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
Is it the same question?
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
It's the same question, and the other part is about the third party organization.
5:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
The idea of a national standard of Canada again is that it remain impartial so that the process is fair when the standard is being developed and is not leaning toward one particular brand, as I mentioned earlier. It's not just the brands. Perhaps you can appreciate that in the service dog world or in any of this work, there are a multitude of different stakeholders from sectors, communities, disciplines, etc.
It's important that all of those people at the table be on the TC, the technical committee, because right now I have to make sure that the TC is going to be balanced. I have representation for about five different categories as well as five different regions across the country. There are rules to establish a national standard of Canada that we are obviously following very closely.
That said, the current situation in this environment in the service dog industry is very fragmented, and there's no rhyme or reason. Anybody can hang a shingle on their door. That's why once a standard is actually developed and published by the Standards Council of Canada, there will be an impartial standard that everybody helped to produce, that all of the various stakeholders had an opportunity to produce. Those who don't want to participate don't have to, but where it gets interesting is that if the government says, “My goodness, this is an amazing job. We like what we see here. We're going to reference those standards in our legislation”, then it becomes law. If it becomes law, that actually puts pressure on all of the industries involved to look at what kind of certification is going to happen to comply with the standard, because then it's no longer a choice; it's mandatory.
I've been researching this for over 20 years, and one of the nice things about NSCs is that not only can they be referenced in legislation, but when it comes to the conformity assessment piece, there's also a huge opportunity for third party accreditation bodies that already exist within Canada's national standards system, so we could turn to those organizations. Again, organizations may decide that they don't necessarily want to go through one particular accreditation body; there may be three or four, depending on the organization and the cost of accreditation.
There will be a lot of variables at that point in time, but there's definitely an opportunity for the national standards of Canada to also inform public policy, and through the process, the more public sector representation we get, the better. That way, we can look at our shared objectives—
5:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
—so that the standards will also achieve those shared objectives.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thanks.
I'm going to start off with just a comment. I'm assuming with regard to veterans that we're talking about more than those serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, but the RCMP and our police services as well. They matter.
I'm going to quote an organization that's in my backyard. I don't think they have any skin in the game, so I think this will be unbiased, but I'm trying to make a point here.
They say, “Service dogs are not just companions providing confidence and reassurance that the handler is not alone, but integral for the entire healing process, helping with emotional self-regulation and mobility while performing various essential tasks and supporting activities of daily living based upon the individual's requirements. A service dog can promote healthy connections with individuals prone to self-isolation and withdrawal, thus offering hope and promoting recovery in the form of post-traumatic growth.”
I'm hoping there's nothing there than anybody would disagree with.
I really want to go back, though, to my previous question and give Ms. Moss a chance to answer it, because it's about time. Playing devil's advocate a little bit here, I think MP Samson made the comment that we got to the moon 50 or 60 years ago, yet here we are failing to establish standards.
I want to go back, Ms. Moss, again to understand why standards failed to be set a few years ago. Why can't we just adopt another country's standards? Because you're involved in this, you said you've already been a year getting the technical standards and groups set up, so how much more time do we need?
Dogs mean different things to different veterans. Safety is of vital importance, but ultimately it's the mobility aspect, or accessibility from my point of view. I don't care what the dog does as long as it's safe and it does that for that veteran. When Sergeant Webb gets on the ferry next week, he should be able to take his darn dog and take care of himself.
Can you comment on that, Ms. Moss?
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
I'll do my best.
We haven't actually been working on our national.... Our notices of intent were announced in March, actually, so there were a variety of reasons.
Because we work with such a diverse group of stakeholders, we also look at readiness for moving forward. There's also the matter of finances. This work costs money to do, so we had to make sure that we had resources and that we were able to look at sustaining those resources, as well as working with an accredited SDO that met our needs as an organization, given our mandate.
All those things had to be taken into consideration. We announced our notices of intent and they were published on the Standards Council's website in March, and now we're proceeding to set up the technical committee. That is actually very quick. It's only been a couple of months, so we're actually breaking some new ground pretty quickly.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
How much more time do you need, keeping this simplified? If you have less money, it means you have to do it faster if you want to get the end goal.
As my other question, why can't we just adopt the standards of another country that has already been down this path?
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
Nobody has been down this path. That's the interesting part. Most people assume that the infrastructure already exists elsewhere, but it does not. That's why we're doing it.
One thing with the national standards of canada and internationally is that you do not write a standard if it already exists. The reason for doing this is that it's non-existent. That's why Veterans Affairs spent $300,000 in an attempt to develop standards.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
If I have any time left, Chair, I'll go back to the statement that I made earlier and go back to Mr. Lapointe or Mr. Webb. Is there any disagreement there with anything that I've just stated, or even Ms. Moss?
5:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't disagree with Ms. Moss at all. If it takes a year, it takes a year. If it takes two, it takes two. It needs to be done right. As an end-user and somebody who's not involved with the operation of a service dog organization, if it takes more than two years, I'm totally satisfied with that, because it will benefit.... I know there is no standard anywhere, internationally, when it comes to service dogs.
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
One thing I can say about the timelines, Mr. Ruff, is that once our group has its first meeting of the technical committee.... We actually haven't even formed the first technical committee. They are the group that then decides how quickly the standard will be developed. It's based on people's availability and commitments and so forth. If the committee wants to meet every week for two hours, then it will go faster. If we break down into working groups during that process, it will probably go more quickly, etc. It really depends on the availability of the technical committee members.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you.
We have enough time for a very short question from MP Lalonde. Go ahead.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marie-France Lalonde Liberal Orléans, ON
It may not be a question. I know that some of you have already been asked several questions. I'd like to hear your closing remarks instead.
I'll leave it very open. Very quickly, what final thoughts would you like to share with the committee on this very important study?
I first want to hear from Ms. Moss, and then from Mr. Lapointe, Mr. Fleury and Mr. Webb.
5:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services
I'm not sure. I didn't hear the question, because my sound cut out.
