Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Steven Clark]

There are two things that I have heard. One, of course, is the fact that the majority of Legions are staffed by volunteers, so when those Legions applied, they were just not eligible for it.

The other thing I heard—and this, specifically, was from the province of Quebec—was that a number of the branches that applied for the CEBA were required to have a cosigner. They were not being granted by their financial institutions to receive the loan on their own. That is something we are looking into, the inability to, perhaps, procure a cosigner for the loan caused some problems within that command. Those are the two main reasons that I had heard for the declines.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Mifflin, I know that you've spoken about your great Legion and some of the challenges with being smaller. I'm not sure exactly where, physically, you're located, other than in Victoria.

No? My colleague Ms. Blaney is saying no, so maybe you can tell me more about that. I see it as more rural, a little bit outside of a large urban centre....

I see in your résumé here that you work in the food and beverage industry. In terms of your ability to recuperate some of the revenues on a yearly basis—the revenues from before COVID—could you tell us some of the biggest challenges that have resulted from the fact you couldn't rent your hall? I think you said that you're the only dance hall in your neighbourhood, so it cost you a lot of money not being able to recuperate those dollars.

Is there a plan, other than government support, to find ways to do that as we are heading into the second wave?

[Lynda Mifflin]

Of course, yes, we are a very small branch in a very small community. We are in a remote location, and so we are pretty much dependent upon our local residents.

When and if the COVID restrictions are relaxed enough to allow us to resume some degree of normal operating, then of course locally we'll focus on fundraising events and those types of things to bolster our local branch. Short of that, any applications we can make at points for assistance elsewhere, we will, but mostly we are dependent upon ourselves and our community to help out.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

What was your percentage of revenues from hall rentals, beverage sales and catering, before COVID?

[Lynda Mifflin]

From food sales, entertainment and those types of things—outside of our bar sales—probably about 30% of the other income was from events other than bar sales.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Okay. Currently, as we all know, the provincial governments are giving instructions, based on where you live, on whether you can either resume your activity on a more “normal” basis, or not—sadly.

If you were to tell me a little bit about your situation in your provincial jurisdiction, in terms of levels.... I'm not sure where in British Columbia you're located, if I may ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's actually the time available, but I'll allow for a very brief answer, please.

[Lynda Mifflin]

We are located in north-central Vancouver Island, on the west coast. We are approximately 100 kilometres from Campbell River, our nearest urban centre, which is a community of approximately 40,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Up next for six minutes is MP Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses, who are shedding a very interesting light for us.

Thank you for being here and for your contribution, each in your own way, to the well-being of our veterans.

My first question is for Mr. Clark.

Do you feel that financial assistance is different for each province, as each legion operates very differently? I was only elected last year, but over time I have come to realize that Quebec is very different from the other provinces in how it works.

Do things vary at all?

[Steven Clark]

Mr. Desilets, absolutely. What we had to do is establish a baseline. We did not know what the branches require on an individual basis, so we have reached out with the application process. They are returning the demands to Dominion Command. We are going to take a look at what the requirements are across the country.

Unlike what we did with the $3 million reserves, we did not allocate it proportionally by branch. We need to find out what the exact need is so we can best address the need.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm a very visual, concrete type of person. Let's take the example of a legion like the one in Deux-Montagnes, in my constituency in Quebec, a very active legion that's very present in the community.

Would you be able to tell me how much money it might receive to alleviate its financial difficulties, which are very much to the fore?

[Steven Clark]

I'm unable to give that quantitative amount at the moment. We have approximately 1,400 branches and $14 million, so if you did it proportionally each Legion would receive $10,000, but we're not going to apportion it that way. Some branches will receive more and some will receive less, but we are replacing, as I said, expenses as opposed to revenues, so we want to make sure the bills can be paid.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand that it must be very hard for you to calculate, because expenses vary. You have scales and all of that. Can you explain to me how you did the calculation? It's not clear to me, and I am absolutely not judging you. Some legions own a building, some legions rent a building, and others operate under a variety of models.

How did you calculate it?

[Steven Clark]

We have sent an application form to every one of our branches for them to complete. They are looking at their 2019 expenses in 11 separate categories and putting down what they are requesting for funding for 2020 to meet the expenses in those categories. Each branch has to provide a copy of an audited financial statement or a review engagement or an approved budget so we know exactly how much it had expended in these various areas. You're right that some branches do not have a mortgage and some are not paying rent, but they may have higher costs in other areas.

Our goal is to make sure that we can make a definite impact on the branch.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Excellent.

In your opinion, will the funds currently allocated meet needs?

I would dare to go a step further and ask you this: when needs persist over time, how can you respond to ensure that certain legions in trouble can stay open for another month, two months, or six months?

[Steven Clark]

That is a very good question. That's why we're triaging the branches. Unfortunately, we know there will be more branches that will not survive, so providing funding to those particular branches is not going to add to their viability. Regrettably, we know there will be more closures. We want to make sure that as much as possible we can get funding to branches that will be able to use it and ensure their sustainability within their particular jurisdiction.

Is it enough? I'm going to say that at the end of probably February or March, we'll have branches approaching us for additional funding, and there may not be that funding. It's not a complete answer, but it is a help.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Clark, for your clear answers.

That will be all for me this time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, sir.

Now we go over to MP Blaney for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just so everybody understands, Victoria is at the southern part of the island, and most of my riding is in the very northern part, where, of course, the amazing community of Gold River is. I'm so grateful to all the witnesses for being here.

As a member of Parliament who represents 11 Legions in my riding, I just want to say that small Legions across Canada are the heartbeat of communities. I want to thank you so much, Ms. Mifflin, for outlining so clearly that they are the places where people go to gather. These are the places that get rented so that community activities can happen. The impact they have on the local economy can never be underestimated. When they have those events, people come to visit and they come to stay, and that impacts the whole region. I want to say thank you for that very clear message.

I also want to acknowledge what Mr. Clark said repeatedly here today, which is that Legions are very independent. They work very hard to be independent and they are not comfortable asking for help, but because they need to, they must, because of the important role they play in the country and communities across our country. I want to thank you for all the work.

Just to support what you were saying, I know that for my Legions, some are struggling and some have found ways to survive. Every Legion is unique to its area.

I want to start with you first, Ms. Mifflin. First of all, thank you for again making me the proudest member of Parliament in Ottawa. I just can't say enough good things about my riding, but you've just proved what a great region I represent.

I first wanted to ask, did any of the programs that are available currently work in the Gold River Legion? Again, seeing that the gross revenue has gone down by 80%, could you tell us how you guys are managing at this time?

[Lynda Mifflin]

Okay. I'll try to answer that to the best of my ability.

I believe the program that is benefiting us at the moment is the wage subsidy program. That is covering a huge portion of our costs for our paid staff and our custodian. Other than that, how we're managing is by reducing our hours of operation, trying to manage our costs as closely as we possibly can and managing our inventories.

One of the juggling things that we're having to do, of course, is anticipating the next public health order, which may result in our closure again, so we're trying to balance our activities with that. Also, of course, we can't plan too many things too far in advance. By tightening up our laces and hanging in there, we're just getting by.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I know, as I think you outlined so clearly, what a pivotal role the Legions play in so many rural and remote areas. Just as a side note, I want to to let you know that I'm still working on that broadband. I know that's a big challenge in so many parts of our riding.

I'm wondering if you could outline for us what the concern would be if you guys couldn't be in the community anymore. You talked about all the services you provide and how you work with isolated veterans. If the Legion were no longer in Gold River, what would be the impact on the community?

[Lynda Mifflin]

Well, like I said, in communities of our size, Legions are an integral part of the community. We are the social centre for our community.

Without us, the veterans would suffer. There would be a loss of opportunities for them to get together and share and socialize. For the community, like I said in my statement, we inject thousands of dollars into our community every year with bursaries for students, and we support minor hockey, figure skating and the local food banks. All of those institutions would suffer without the Legion.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Something I want to get on the record is that, prior to COVID, while it's always a struggle in our smaller communities, I want to clarify that you were doing well. You're talking about how much you give back to the community, so I want to make sure that this is really clear.

[Lynda Mifflin]

Yes, absolutely. Prior to COVID, we were a vibrant little Legion. We were open seven days a week. We had activities going on in the evenings. We were sponsoring local activities and providing venues for the community for community events. That was prior to COVID. Since COVID hit and we were forced to close our doors, it has been a real challenge. As I said, our revenues have been decreased by 80%, which means we don't have anything to give back.